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Thread: Just one more acquisition...

  1. #61
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    With Strop, there are five guys I consider locks for the bullpen. Leaves three spots.
    Nah.

    Assuming health and no trades, seven spots are already locks:

    Iglesias
    Lorenzen
    Strop
    Garrett (out of options)
    R. Stephenson (out of options)
    Reed (out of options)
    Sims (out of options)

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    Griffey012 (02-03-2020)


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  4. #62
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I’m more interested at this point in getting a Brock Holt type for the infield. I’ve posted previously about the OF/IF imbalance and I’d rather see that addressed.
    I'm guessing Williams is working the phones for a trade acquisition at this point. Otherwise, he'd be all over either Brock Holt or Tim Beckham as a multi-position infield backup.

    That said, I don't see the imbalance you're talking about. (I mean, I see it. There are a lot of OF on the 40-man roster, but that's just numbers.)

    VanMeter can play all over the infield (except for, perhaps, SS). Ditto Farmer. And Blandino. Castellanos has played some 1B, as has Barnhart and Casali. Even Senzel can play the infield.

    I'd prefer a starting SS better than Freddy Galvis. I wouldn't mind a super utility guy to play multiple positions while hitting near league average.

    But they already have a Brock Holt "type" in VanMeter, who is listed as an OF only because he played more in LF last year than he did in the infield.

  5. #63
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    i agree ... i'd much rather spend whatever remaining money there is to spend on a free agent on a relief pitcher. not a utility infielder. it's just more difficult to find good relievers compared to good utility infielders. plus, as you mentioned, the reds already have a good utility player in van meter.

  6. #64
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by JFLegal View Post
    i agree ... i'd much rather spend whatever remaining money there is to spend on a free agent on a relief pitcher. not a utility infielder. it's just more difficult to find good relievers compared to good utility infielders. plus, as you mentioned, the reds already have a good utility player in van meter.
    I don't want to spend money on either right now.

    I'm still holding out hope that Cincinnati can make Freddy Galvis the utility guy behind a (much) better shortstop. And I'd be willing to spend all my capital there.

  7. #65
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Cody Reed and Lucas Sims are the darlings of RedsZone’s off-season but haven’t had much success in the bigs. They have good peripherals in small relief samples, wish them luck, but they’re not locks for the OD roster.

    Anyone who doesn’t see the Reds’ OF/IF imbalance isn’t looking very hard. Reds have Castellanos, Winker, Ervin, Aquino, Senzel, Shogo, Jankowski, Payton, as outfielders. Their main backup infielder is Van Meter who had an 88 OPS+ and doesn’t play shortstop.

    Nick Senzel is not a utility infielder. He’s going to be a starting outfielder in most games. The Reds have never suggested he’s being considered as a utility man and he spent last season almost entirely in CF.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-03-2020 at 04:14 PM.

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    REDREAD (02-04-2020)

  9. #66
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Cody Reed and Lucas Sims are the darlings of RedsZone’s off-season but haven’t had much success in the bigs. They have good peripherals in small relief samples, wish them luck, but they’re not locks for the OD roster.
    They are out of options. If they're not on the OD roster, they've been traded.

    There is next to no chance they'd be released or waived because of those peripherals.

    I completely disagree about success, btw. Both have exceptional numbers in relief roles. I do agree that it is a small sample.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Anyone who doesn’t see the Reds’ OF/IF imbalance isn’t looking very hard. Reds have Castellanos, Winker, Ervin, Aquino, Senzel, Shogo, Jankowski, Payton, as outfielders. Their main backup infielder is Van Meter who had an 88 OPS+ and doesn’t play shortstop.

    Nick Senzel is not a utility infielder. He’s going to be a starting outfielder in most games. The Reds have never suggested he’s being considered as a utility man and he spent last season almost entirely in CF.
    Castellanos, Senzel, and VanMeter all have histories with playing the infield. Not only that, all three are, if I had to bet, likely to play at least some games on the dirt this year.

    As part of the new paradigm, baseball players are now viewed as just that-- players. They're not pigeon-holed into specific positions. The Reds have given some lip service to this new way of structuring a team.

    Basing your ideas of imbalance on a 40-man roster without accepting that some of those guys might well play on the infield too seems a bit odd.

    But, hey, it's the off-season.

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    Ron Madden (02-03-2020)

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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Cody Reed and Lucas Sims are the darlings of RedsZone’s off-season but haven’t had much success in the bigs. They have good peripherals in small relief samples, wish them luck, but they’re not locks for the OD roster.

    Anyone who doesn’t see the Reds’ OF/IF imbalance isn’t looking very hard. Reds have Castellanos, Winker, Ervin, Aquino, Senzel, Shogo, Jankowski, Payton, as outfielders. Their main backup infielder is Van Meter who had an 88 OPS+ and doesn’t play shortstop.

    Nick Senzel is not a utility infielder. He’s going to be a starting outfielder in most games. The Reds have never suggested he’s being considered as a utility man and he spent last season almost entirely in CF.
    If Reed isn’t on the OD roster, he is either hurt or we have acquired some good relievers to make him expendable. Thus, he is pretty much a lock. The same could be said for Sims. You don’t cut those kinda of peripherals and in Reeds case you don’t give up on a top prospect that quickly.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  12. #68
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Nah.

    Assuming health and no trades, seven spots are already locks:

    Iglesias
    Lorenzen
    Strop
    Garrett (out of options)
    R. Stephenson (out of options)
    Reed (out of options)
    Sims (out of options)
    I really doubt Reed or especially Sims are particularly locks, I’m not letting their presence stop me from upgrading those spots or just going for someone more intriguing than they are.

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    REDREAD (02-04-2020)

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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    The “out of options” status of Reed and Sims are no issue.

    Neither is a particularly young pitcher anymore. If they still can’t make the team on merit, they get waived and you take your chances. In Reed’s case, he can easily be DL’d after missing so much time last season.

    These guys are just not the key pieces some would suggest. They are competing for spots and nobody is going to hand it to them with or without options remaining.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-03-2020 at 07:17 PM.

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    REDREAD (02-04-2020)

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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post

    Castellanos, Senzel, and VanMeter all have histories with playing the infield. Not only that, all three are, if I had to bet, likely to play at least some games on the dirt this year.

    As part of the new paradigm, baseball players are now viewed as just that-- players. They're not pigeon-holed into specific positions. The Reds have given some lip service to this new way of structuring a team.

    Basing your ideas of imbalance on a 40-man roster without accepting that some of those guys might well play on the infield too seems a bit odd.
    The OF/If imbalance is there, accept it or not. Senzel played exactly 1.1 innings in the infield last MLB season. Castellanos played zero. In 2018 Castellanos also played zero infield innings. Nick C and Nick S are not on the team to be backups for Moustakas and Suarez except maybe in rare emergencies.

    Almost every MLB position player at one time played a different position. Votto was drafted as a catcher if I recall. Suarez was a shortstop. Just because someone has a history at a position doesn’t mean he is intended as the backup for the position at this time.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-03-2020 at 07:19 PM.

  17. #71
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The “out of options” status of Reed and Sims are no issue.

    Neither is a particularly young pitcher anymore. If they still can’t make the team on merit, they get waived and you take your chances. In Reed’s case, he can easily be DL’d after missing so much time last season.

    These guys are just not the key pieces some would suggest. They are competing for spots and nobody is going to hand it to them with or without options remaining.
    Out of options is a huge issue. It, by definition, limits the moves a team can make with the player.

    They can release them, keep them, or trade them.

    That's it.

    And stop with the goalpost moving please. No one is saying they're key pitchers. Nearly everyone is saying that they won't just be released or waived. They are locks to make the team, based on what they have now.

    Reed cannot be DL'ed unless he's injured or playing along. I sincerely doubt he'd agree to play along knowing that he'll be picked up by another team.

    Yes, they are competing for spots. But the Cincinnati 25-man roster is not a strict meritocracy-- they both have built-in advantages that other pitchers/ players do not.

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    Rolando (02-03-2020)

  19. #72
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The OF/If imbalance is there, accept it or not. Senzel played exactly 1.1 innings in the infield last MLB season. Castellanos played zero. In 2018 Castellanos also played zero infield innings. Nick C and Nick S are not on the team to be backups for Moustakas and Suarez except maybe in rare emergencies.

    Almost every MLB position player at one time played a different position. Votto was drafted as a catcher if I recall. Suarez was a shortstop. Just because someone has a history at a position doesn’t mean he is intended as the backup for the position at this time.
    Sigh.

    We'll just to agree to disagree about this.

    I can't convince you that the infield histories of Senzel, Castellanos, and VanMeter means the 40-man roster isn't dangerously thin of infielders.

    You can't convince me that prior experience and the Reds' stated goal of player versatility doesn't matter.

  20. #73
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Let's just hope that the rest of the pen is so good that it doesn't matter how well Strop does. It's just a roll of the dice anyway.
    "Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton

  21. #74
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    You can't say "A solution is a guy who is an established high leverage reliever who had a solid year last year." yet also call Givens and Watson partial solutions, unless of course Strop is also a partial solution, but then there's no real complaint about Strop. After all it just isn't true that "Watson and Givens had significantly better seasons than Strop last year". In what aspect did Watson and Givens have "significantly better" seasons than Strop? They all three had pretty pedestrian years. I'm also not sure it is even fair to call Kennedy an established high leverage reliever. He is 35 and last year was his first season in the bullpen. I've said elsewhere I'd gladly add him into the late innings, but I wouldn't suddenly expect his arrival to "fix" anything. It would improve the pen barring surprisingly poor performance, but it isn't going to generate some dramatic improvement.

    Watson got pummeled by lefties last year, even with the perks of pitching in the NL west. He had iffy numbers and a high HR rate. Zach Duke is probably an apt comparison. I feel much more confident with Reed over a 34 year old coming off that kind of season.

    Giles would be a welcome addition, but I have no idea what the cost would be, likely high. If that's the case, I'd rather roll the dice and make a move early if the bullpen is an issue.

    Which guy fits better in GABP? And which guy was better last season?:

    Player A: 6.8 K/9, 2.0 BB/9, 1.5 HR/9, 44% GB
    Player B: 10.6 K/9, 4.3 BB/9, 1.3 HR/9, 53% GB
    Player C: 12.3 K/9, 3.7 BB/9, 1.9 HR/9, 38% GB
    I like A the best. His low walks lead to the best K/BB ratio of the three (though C is close). They all give up too many HR, but C is awful. Player B has the worst K/BB ratio which I think is the best indicator of success, so he'd be my last choice. I wouldn't want to call it a day with any of them.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    My last acquisition is Corey Seager or Francisco Lindor. (Senzel for Seager, straight up or Senzel, Aquino, and a lesser guy for Lindor.)

    If not one of those, Chris Taylor. (Tyler Mahle, straight up)

    If not Taylor, Franklin Barreto. (Jesse Winker for Barreto and RP JB Wendelken)
    I like Taylor. But would not want to give up Mahle. Is India an overpay?


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