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Thread: Greatest MLB Hall of Fame Snubs

  1. #31
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest MLB Hall of Fame Snubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy Jones View Post
    You have to wonder how much better Mize, along with several other of his peers would have looked had they not had to sacrifice some of their prime playing years for military service, which was probably also taken into consideration when he was up for election. I never really knew how good he was until you posted that comparison chart, but he was pretty incredible, as was/is Votto. But I believe if Votto hangs on and the rest of his career is like last season or worse, it’s gonna hurt his case. He won’t have the counting numbers and he’ll have to be judged basically on 8 years. Not sure it’ll be enough.
    Johnny was better than his numbers for sure, but numbers are what folks will look at and I believe Votto will make it for his numbers and his peers view of him


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  3. #32
    Member BernieCarbo's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest MLB Hall of Fame Snubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy Jones View Post
    You have to wonder how much better Mize, along with several other of his peers would have looked had they not had to sacrifice some of their prime playing years for military service, which was probably also taken into consideration when he was up for election. I never really knew how good he was until you posted that comparison chart, but he was pretty incredible, as was/is Votto. But I believe if Votto hangs on and the rest of his career is like last season or worse, it’s gonna hurt his case. He won’t have the counting numbers and he’ll have to be judged basically on 8 years. Not sure it’ll be enough.
    Mize was an amazing player. Not only did he lose years to the war, but he was kept in the minors too long, which was common at that time (check out Lefty Grove's stats; they were basically owned by the minor league clubs). He was the only guy to have over 50 HRs and less than 50 strike outs.

    And I agree, the voters did take his military service into consideration, and if you parsed his missing years into his record, and and then add Votto's last years into his stats, the difference becomes huge. I know it's just numbers, but Votto's OPS and BA will probably drop below .900 and .300. It won't help, especially being from Cincy.

  4. #33
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest MLB Hall of Fame Snubs

    Quote Originally Posted by BernieCarbo View Post
    Mize was an amazing player. Not only did he lose years to the war, but he was kept in the minors too long, which was common at that time (check out Lefty Grove's stats; they were basically owned by the minor league clubs). He was the only guy to have over 50 HRs and less than 50 strike outs.

    And I agree, the voters did take his military service into consideration, and if you parsed his missing years into his record, and and then add Votto's last years into his stats, the difference becomes huge. I know it's just numbers, but Votto's OPS and BA will probably drop below .900 and .300. It won't help, especially being from Cincy.
    Mize wasn't kept in the minors as much as he had injuries that limited his game then.. enough that the Reds sent him back to the Cardinals after they had the chance to have him


  5. #34
    Member Kingspoint's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest MLB Hall of Fame Snubs

    A lot of players who could have been in the Hall never got a chance to even be in the bigs, of course, mostly from the Negro Leagues.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  6. #35
    AlienTruckStopSexWorker cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest MLB Hall of Fame Snubs

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Bill Dahlen
    I thought about including him, but he was more of a compiler than someone who was great at any point in time.
    Stick to your guns.

  7. #36
    AlienTruckStopSexWorker cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest MLB Hall of Fame Snubs

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    Barry Bonds - duh
    Roger Clemens - duh
    Pete Rose - duh
    Manny Ramirez - He could have been three times as bad of a defender (and he was bad) and still been a hall of famer.
    Gary Sheffield - There are 27 hall of famers at RF, and he had more offensive WAR than all but 5 of them. He had 14 more offensive WAR than Edgar Martinez. He has slightly more offensive WAR than Frank Thomas. More than Jim Thome. He should be in.
    Bernie Williams - there are 19 hall of famers at CF, and he had more offensive WAR than all but 7 of them. The ex post facto questionable defensive metrics hold him back, but I'm not buying it. He didn't deserve 4 gold gloves, but negative 10 WAR for his defense is a joke. Career slash line of .297/.381/.477 (125 ops+) plus a full season's worth of post season games (545 plate appearances) with a .275/.371/.480 line against enhanced competition
    Bobby Grich - the average WAR of the 20 hall of fame 2B is 69.4. His was 71.1. His 7 year peak was better than most of the Hall of Famers. He basically has Lou Whitaker's HOF case with a much better peak.
    Curt Schilling - above the average WAR for starting pitchers that are currently in the Hall, 13th in history in wins above average for starting pitchers (65 starting pitchers are in the Hall). Beast in the post season
    Joe Jackson - .356/.432/.517 lifetime slash line. He could have thrown three other world serieses, and I'd still put him in the hall.

    I fully support the character clause. And all these guys were characters.
    Stick to your guns.

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