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Thread: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

  1. #46
    "A Rose by Any Other. . " RedRoser's Avatar
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    I understand that, but there are some players who either go from single A to the bigs, or bypass the minors altogether if they are good enough. That list includes Dave Winfield, John Olerud, Joe Nuxhall, Xavier Nady, Sandy Koufax, Dave Roberts, Catfish Hunter, Pete Incaviglia, Bob Horner, Jim Abbott. But I really DO agree that a few years experience/seasoning in the minors is the norm. The greedy Reds fan in me would just like to see some new talented blood, and sooner than later. LOL

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  4. #47
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedRoser View Post
    I understand that, but there are some players who either go from single A to the bigs, or bypass the minors altogether if they are good enough. That list includes Dave Winfield, John Olerud, Joe Nuxhall, Xavier Nady, Sandy Koufax, Dave Roberts, Catfish Hunter, Pete Incaviglia, Bob Horner, Jim Abbott. But I really DO agree that a few years experience/seasoning in the minors is the norm. The greedy Reds fan in me would just like to see some new talented blood, and sooner than later. LOL
    The most recent example from that group is probably John Olerud? Xavier Nady played 1 game and was sent to the minor for a few seasons, I imagine the 1 game had something to do with his contract. Mike Leake was probably the most recent to bypass the minors.

    Juan Soto is probably the most recent relevant example, and even he spent some time in AA, although a very limited amount of time. He was also putting up cartoon numbers in the minors.
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  5. #48
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedRoser View Post
    I understand that, but there are some players who either go from single A to the bigs, or bypass the minors altogether if they are good enough. That list includes Dave Winfield, John Olerud, Joe Nuxhall, Xavier Nady, Sandy Koufax, Dave Roberts, Catfish Hunter, Pete Incaviglia, Bob Horner, Jim Abbott. But I really DO agree that a few years experience/seasoning in the minors is the norm. The greedy Reds fan in me would just like to see some new talented blood, and sooner than later. LOL
    All of those guys except for Catfish and Joe went to college. And Joe was a special case and would never have seen a big league mound if there weren't a war on. So high school + college pretty much equals high school + a few years in the minors.

    Now you wonder about guys who go straight to the NBA after a year or 4 in college or guys who go straight to the NFL after 3-4 years in college and compete in those leagues but a baseball player has to have 3-4 years of minor league seasoning in addition to high school and college. Why can't those guys just show up on a big league roster and perform adequately? I know the system in place now gives teams incentive to keep them in the minors but theoretically speaking, if these guys are as talented in their sport as guys like Zion Williamson and Joe Burrow are at theirs, why can't they compete in the show immediately like the former two?
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  6. #49
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Asking him to go from A ball to the bigs while having never played in college is putting him at a huge disadvantage. It's not happening.

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Yep. Even some of the great shortstops tend to have a lot of errors initially.
    Errors at a young age are often a function of range. The kid has the ability to get to a difficult ball and tries to make the ball. For lesser fielders, it registers as a hit. Eventually the rangy ones learn how to make those plays.
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  9. #51
    TyrannoSuarez Wrecks WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by HammerTime View Post
    Asking him to go from A ball to the bigs while having never played in college is putting him at a huge disadvantage. It's not happening.
    Well and succinctly stated. People just don't get this. The AA level is where the better pitchers start throwing quality breaking pitches more consistently, as well as showing larger difference between fastball and off-speed pitches. Players don't often learn to hit major league pitching without doing well at AA, even if it turns out to be a short stay.
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  10. #52
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by HammerTime View Post
    Asking him to go from A ball to the bigs while having never played in college is putting him at a huge disadvantage. It's not happening.
    Going from A ball to the bigs is not happening, but if he does well in ~300 PA in AA, I think he could be a mid-season call-up.

  11. #53
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    Going from A ball to the bigs is not happening, but if he does well in ~300 PA in AA, I think he could be a mid-season call-up.
    Agreed.

    And he'd have to go 300/375/500 for that to happen.

    It's possible, but unlikely.

  12. #54
    TyrannoSuarez Wrecks WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Agreed.

    And he'd have to go 300/375/500 for that to happen.

    It's possible, but unlikely.
    It wouldn't be the numbers. It would be whether or not he's shown the skills (recognition of breaking pitches and changeups, limits defensive lapses and baserunning mistakes) to succeed at the major league level. If he doesn't show those then no matter what he's hitting he shouldn't be forced to the majors.
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  14. #55
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedRoser View Post
    I understand that, but there are some players who either go from single A to the bigs, or bypass the minors altogether if they are good enough. That list includes Dave Winfield, John Olerud, Joe Nuxhall, Xavier Nady, Sandy Koufax, Dave Roberts, Catfish Hunter, Pete Incaviglia, Bob Horner, Jim Abbott. But I really DO agree that a few years experience/seasoning in the minors is the norm. The greedy Reds fan in me would just like to see some new talented blood, and sooner than later. LOL
    ha, using nuxy to prove your point. i mean, you're not wrong, he did make the majors at the age of 15. lol. it was because of world war 2, but again, you're not wrong.

  15. #56
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Agreed.

    And he'd have to go 300/375/500 for that to happen.

    It's possible, but unlikely.
    I think .280/.350/.450 would be enough if we are looking at lines, but I think WrongVerb is right that an exact number doesn't matter as much as his ability to walk a little bit, keep his Ks under control while still flashing that power we have seen all spring.

  16. #57
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    All of those guys except for Catfish and Joe went to college. And Joe was a special case and would never have seen a big league mound if there weren't a war on. So high school + college pretty much equals high school + a few years in the minors.

    Now you wonder about guys who go straight to the NBA after a year or 4 in college or guys who go straight to the NFL after 3-4 years in college and compete in those leagues but a baseball player has to have 3-4 years of minor league seasoning in addition to high school and college. Why can't those guys just show up on a big league roster and perform adequately? I know the system in place now gives teams incentive to keep them in the minors but theoretically speaking, if these guys are as talented in their sport as guys like Zion Williamson and Joe Burrow are at theirs, why can't they compete in the show immediately like the former two?
    just illustrates how vastly different baseball is than other sports. baseball players usually begin to peak around the age of 27. a football running back is considered old at 27. it just takes longer for baseball players than other athletes in major sports, on average. no one would ever say the average football or basketball player peaks at the age of 27. i mean, some do have career years at 27 or even older, but sabermatricans all seem to agree 27 is the magic age for baseball players. i imagine the peak age for football players is lower. basketball players too. and also, it just doesn't take players as long to achieve great heights in those sports, on average.

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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by HammerTime View Post
    Barry Larkin had 29 errors in his 2nd full year with the Reds.
    So he was error prone too...

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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Errors at a young age are often a function of range. The kid has the ability to get to a difficult ball and tries to make the ball. For lesser fielders, it registers as a hit. Eventually the rangy ones learn how to make those plays.
    I don't mean to imply the errors aren't fixable, however, they are there and need to be addressed before he's MLB ready. It would be the same as saying "catchers take longer to develop". That's fine but the catcher has to show he's ready

  19. #60
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: How ' bout Jose Garcia?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    I don't mean to imply the errors aren't fixable, however, they are there and need to be addressed before he's MLB ready. It would be the same as saying "catchers take longer to develop". That's fine but the catcher has to show he's ready
    Sure, but my point is a young SS with a higher error total might be a good thing. It's often an indicator of range.
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