Turn Off Ads?
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 87

Thread: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

  1. #31
    Member adkindo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,104

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    The point of going to college though is to get an education which leads to a degree.
    I think we need to get back to this being the primary goal for all students on campus. I am not blaming the student athletes at all...they are just playing the hand they have been dealt. Having students on campus who are not primarily in class to learn for self development or prepare for a career is a hindrance to everyone else including the professors and other students. Again, I am not pointing the blame at any student athlete, they did not design the current system.

    When I say hindrance, I will give you another example. I have a friend that sought a graduate degree from an regionally accredited private for profit college. She chose the path because of her professional and personal obligations did not allow for a traditional route. She went to undergrad at a Patriot League school, so she was well educated. She would rave about the professors at the graduate school, and how they would intertwine real world work with teaching, etc. etc., but she pointed out a massive issue to me that I had not considered. The classes were heavy with adults that were there simply because their employer was paying for it, and they were not invested in learning or becoming prepared for advancement in their careers. They were not doing anything extreme to disrupt class, but the very fact that they were not there for the right reasons combines with the fact that a for profit school will try to ensure nobody drops out, everyone was somewhat held back to ensure they kept up. My ex-wife went to UK during the Pitino, Walker, Mercer, McCarty, etc. era.....and she has similar stories in classes she shared with them. The very fact that they were somewhat "celebrities" on campus and the fact that they were not really invested in the education....they often became a distraction in class even though they did little in class outside of set in the back of the room and fall asleep.

    The fact is they probably should have either been in some form of minor league system or the NBA itself instead of being forced to be a student @ UK.

  2. Likes:

    WVRed (04-16-2020)


  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #32
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    6,022

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    Having students on campus who are not primarily in class to learn for self development or prepare for a career is a hindrance to everyone else including the professors and other students.
    These guys are trying to development and prepare for a career by going to college-- it's just remarkably specialized.

    If you listen to the interviews of the players, they mention how they developed within the program (ie, college) and often profusely thank coaches, professors, tutors, and support staff for helping them learn and develop in their chosen field. Some of them don't often need four years of school.

    To say that they aren't invested in their education is completely asinine. How many hours per week do they spend learning? More than any other students, I can guarantee you. They are in school to advance in their career-- to learn and to make money. That is the very definition of the right reason.
    Last edited by Bourgeois Zee; 04-16-2020 at 09:15 AM.

  5. #33
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Mid Ohio Valley
    Posts
    8,539

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    UK just picked up another transfer, Obi Toppins younger brother:


    BREAKING: Rhode Island transfer Jacob Toppin commits to KENTUCKY

    https://kentuckysportsradio.com/bask...s-to-kentucky/
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  6. #34
    Member adkindo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,104

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    These guys are trying to development and prepare for a career by going to college-- it's just remarkably specialized.

    If you listen to the interviews of the players, they mention how they developed within the program (ie, college) and often profusely thank coaches, professors, tutors, and support staff for helping them learn and develop in their chosen field. Some of them don't often need four years of school.

    To say that they aren't invested in their education is completely asinine. How many hours per week do they spend learning? More than any other students, I can guarantee you. They are in school to advance in their career-- to learn and to make money. That is the very definition of the right reason.
    this is a silly game you are playing. Universities were not intended to teach people how to play a game. If your point was logical, they would not have majors in communications, education or something else. They spend hours everyday in a class that is attempting to teach them in areas that are not related to why they are in college.

    I knew someone would try to bend the argument with the type of point you attempted to make, which is why I really tried to make it clear it was not an anti student athlete position. Why do Universities not have majors in Basketball or Football? If they did, your position would have much more merit, but the reason they do not is because the programs would not receive regional accreditation which is a must for any credible University. The reason the programs would not be regionally accredited is because "learning a single sport is not within the mission of higher learning". Some schools have squeezed in "coaching" majors, but they are full of psychology and other disciplines.....as well as they are not single sport focused...and still they struggled to receive accreditation.

    If you are an elite recruit, and have zero interest in attending college classes, you should have a pathway to continue development of your skills outside of the college system. This would not hurt UK or Duke in basketball or Ohio State in football....they would still attract the elite athletes that desire to attend college. Also, this is not suggesting that elite athletes should not attend college....reports are that Zion Williamson very much enjoyed attending Duke both educationally and for athletics....if accurate, then he definitely should consider college even if it ends up being for a short period....as long as he has the desire for the education he is receiving in class. Guys like Ben Simmons did not want to attend college but knew the best way to be drafted high at that time was to attend a major college....so he wasted his time as well as everyone elses. What was the point?

  7. #35
    Member adkindo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,104

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    UK just picked up another transfer, Obi Toppins younger brother:


    BREAKING: Rhode Island transfer Jacob Toppin commits to KENTUCKY

    https://kentuckysportsradio.com/bask...s-to-kentucky/
    what are your thoughts? He does not look on tape like Obi did as a Freshman....but then again, I think Obi red shirted. The cynical side of me wonders if a program like UK would have had interest if he was not Obi's brother? I admit, I know so little about him, it is ignorant on my part to make that suggestion.

  8. #36
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    6,022

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    this is a silly game you are playing. Universities were not intended to teach people how to play a game. If your point was logical, they would not have majors in communications, education or something else. They spend hours everyday in a class that is attempting to teach them in areas that are not related to why they are in college.

    I knew someone would try to bend the argument with the type of point you attempted to make, which is why I really tried to make it clear it was not an anti student athlete position. Why do Universities not have majors in Basketball or Football? If they did, your position would have much more merit, but the reason they do not is because the programs would not receive regional accreditation which is a must for any credible University. The reason the programs would not be regionally accredited is because "learning a single sport is not within the mission of higher learning". Some schools have squeezed in "coaching" majors, but they are full of psychology and other disciplines.....as well as they are not single sport focused...and still they struggled to receive accreditation.

    If you are an elite recruit, and have zero interest in attending college classes, you should have a pathway to continue development of your skills outside of the college system. This would not hurt UK or Duke in basketball or Ohio State in football....they would still attract the elite athletes that desire to attend college. Also, this is not suggesting that elite athletes should not attend college....reports are that Zion Williamson very much enjoyed attending Duke both educationally and for athletics....if accurate, then he definitely should consider college even if it ends up being for a short period....as long as he has the desire for the education he is receiving in class. Guys like Ben Simmons did not want to attend college but knew the best way to be drafted high at that time was to attend a major college....so he wasted his time as well as everyone elses. What was the point?
    1. Universities tout the college experience all the time when trying to acquire elite recruits. They also intend (present tense) to teach them how to play a game that can make said athlete millions of dollars. (And I completely reject your assertion about not teaching people how to play games with the simple major of PE. And the fact that college began intercollegiate sports to... teach their students how to play games through cooperation, sportsmanship, and competition.)

    2. Universities don't have majors in Basketball or Football because there aren't enough classes tied to the physical exertion. But that's beside the point. Kids go to certain colleges to learn how to play the game. The degree is secondary (obviously) to the learning. The university touts this learning. The student-athlete buys in. Both benefit. It matters not that there's a major.

    3. I have no opinion on attendance in college classes, but would remind you that most of those student-athletes are working and traveling days at a time in addition to attending classes and that a majority of college kids aren't interested in attending class so much as graduating from college so they can go get a good job without having to work too hard for it.

    4. Zion Williamson enjoyed his classes at Duke. He also learned from Coach K and the Duke program certain skills-- how to speak to the media, how to handle his finances, how to work with other talented players, how to shoot a jumper with a quicker release, and a thousand other little things that will/ have carried over to the pros. Ben Simmons may have learned those same things at LSU. (Word is that he wasn't a great student.) I know Kentucky players say-- all the time-- how much they learned while at UK. Well, newsflash-- that's why they go to that university. To learn. So that they can then move onto their chosen professional field to make life-changing money, and, later in life, to try and grow and keep it.

    5. Some kids waste the time of some adults. Some kids drop out. The number of basketball players who do so pale in comparison to the number of potheads. Or Momma's Boys. Or poor. Or any other number of reasons. Yes, Ben Simmons probably wasted the time of LSU professors. But he learned some lessons while there (I assume). He's certainly become a great player and would (again, I assume) say something about how his time in college prepared him for his future as a million-dollar All-Star player in the NBA.

  9. #37
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    6,022

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    From The Athletic's Kyle Tucker on Toppins:

    “He’s super athletic. He has more vertical jump than his brother. Yes, Jacob gets off the ground more than Obi,” says their godfather, Victor Monaros, who figures Jacob is flirting with a 40-inch vertical. “Obi is stronger and does it with more flash. What Jacob is missing is that weight and the experience of going through a battle every day in practice, competing and being in structure, discipline and accountability. That stuff teaches you how to fight, and that’s why he’s going to Kentucky. I’m looking forward to watching him become the player the whole family knows he can be there.”
    Also mentions he may not be finished growing and could hit 7'0".

  10. #38
    Member adkindo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,104

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    1. Universities tout the college experience all the time when trying to acquire elite recruits. They also intend (present tense) to teach them how to play a game that can make said athlete millions of dollars. (And I completely reject your assertion about not teaching people how to play games with the simple major of PE. And the fact that college began intercollegiate sports to... teach their students how to play games through cooperation, sportsmanship, and competition.)

    2. Universities don't have majors in Basketball or Football because there aren't enough classes tied to the physical exertion. But that's beside the point. Kids go to certain colleges to learn how to play the game. The degree is secondary (obviously) to the learning. The university touts this learning. The student-athlete buys in. Both benefit. It matters not that there's a major.

    3. I have no opinion on attendance in college classes, but would remind you that most of those student-athletes are working and traveling days at a time in addition to attending classes and that a majority of college kids aren't interested in attending class so much as graduating from college so they can go get a good job without having to work too hard for it.

    4. Zion Williamson enjoyed his classes at Duke. He also learned from Coach K and the Duke program certain skills-- how to speak to the media, how to handle his finances, how to work with other talented players, how to shoot a jumper with a quicker release, and a thousand other little things that will/ have carried over to the pros. Ben Simmons may have learned those same things at LSU. (Word is that he wasn't a great student.) I know Kentucky players say-- all the time-- how much they learned while at UK. Well, newsflash-- that's why they go to that university. To learn. So that they can then move onto their chosen professional field to make life-changing money, and, later in life, to try and grow and keep it.

    5. Some kids waste the time of some adults. Some kids drop out. The number of basketball players who do so pale in comparison to the number of potheads. Or Momma's Boys. Or poor. Or any other number of reasons. Yes, Ben Simmons probably wasted the time of LSU professors. But he learned some lessons while there (I assume). He's certainly become a great player and would (again, I assume) say something about how his time in college prepared him for his future as a million-dollar All-Star player in the NBA.
    We just disagree. I feel like you are viewing my opinion as them not being able to learn all those things they learn from college athletics via another avenue. I am sure they learn a ton in sports because we all learned a ton of life lessons in sports, but it does not have to be on a college campus. Why can't they learn those lessons is the G-League or any other professional route. Who is benefiting from forcing a kid to set in a College 100 level Literature class when the student has zero interest in learning or applying it to degree completion? I am just trying to find the winner in that situation. I feel like it is selfish of me to tell an athlete you have to attend college and take 15 hours of degree seeking classes to continue to play a sport.

    Also, in regards to your #2, your assertion to why they do not have single sport degrees in factually incorrect. Schools have spoke to the accreditation agencies in the past to attempt to get some of these programs accredited and they have always been denied under the claim "does not meet the mission of higher learning". In regards to material, I am pretty sure Bob Huggins could teach enough basketball to result in a Doctorate if needed. I am guessing you and I are similar in that we are solid fans, and feel like we know a lot about the game.....but I think our minds would be blown about how little we know by our Sophomore year in the hypothetical Basketball curriculum.
    Last edited by adkindo; 04-18-2020 at 01:05 AM.

  11. #39
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Mid Ohio Valley
    Posts
    8,539

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  12. #40
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    6,022

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    We just disagree. I feel like you are viewing my opinion as them not being able to learn all those things they learn from college athletics via another avenue. I am sure they learn a ton in sports because we all learned a ton of life lessons in sports, but it does not have to be on a college campus. Why can't they learn those lessons is the G-League or any other professional route.
    They go to a college campus because that's the best place to learn their craft. Just like lawyers and doctors and engineers. You don't have to go to college to be an accountant. You can learn engineering or law or medicine on your own. But going to school for it sure helps your professional aspirations. Ditto here.

    John Calipari can only coach at one place, and-- news flash-- he's really good at developing players. Probably either the best or second-best in the world.

    If you could choose anywhere you want to go, why go to a secondary option? Why not use the best place possible to make your dream come true?

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    Who is benefiting from forcing a kid to set in a College 100 level Literature class when the student has zero interest in learning or applying it to degree completion? I am just trying to find the winner in that situation. I feel like it is selfish of me to tell an athlete you have to attend college and take 15 hours of degree seeking classes to continue to play a sport.
    Who's hurt by them attending college? There are literally hundreds of thousands of kids who attend colleges and universities who don't finish their degrees. Or care about them.

    Why pick on basketball players?

    Too, no one is forcing them to attend school. This is what they want, as evidenced by both free will and other options they continually choose not to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    Also, in regards to your #2, your assertion to why they do not have single sport degrees in factually incorrect. Schools have spoke to the accreditation agencies in the past to attempt to get some of these programs accredited and they have always been denied under the claim "does not meet the mission of higher learning". In regards to material, I am pretty sure Bob Huggins could teach enough basketball to result in a Doctorate if needed. I am guessing you and I are similar in that we are solid fans, and feel like we know a lot about the game.....but I think our minds would be blown about how little we know by our Sophomore year in the hypothetical Basketball curriculum.
    You're going to have to show me that one. With links to evidence. Even if it is true, so what? The kids are there to learn basketball. The degree is unimportant. The skills are. You get those skills best at elite universities and colleges with elite coaching staffs. If a kid can stay eligible, it hurts no one he's in school and learning so that he can then make life-changing money moving forward.

  13. #41
    Member adkindo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,104

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    1. Apples and oranges....you can't practice law or medicine unless you have a degree from an accredited university....or more accurately you are unable to take the exam to gain licensure to practice as a professional in those fields without the degree. Nothing requires a basketball player to attend college to be a professional in basketball.

    2. Anytime you place a student in a learning environment that has no interest in learning, there is a potential negative impact on others. Again, stay on subject, from the beginning, I have been talking about student athletes that have no interest in the academic part. You are claiming they want to go, but that simply is not true for many athletes. There was an entire documentary about Ben Simmons and others talking about how it was a waste of their time. Until we have a legitimate path, which it appears we are getting close to, many players viewed college as a requirement to become a professional basketball player. From the beginning, I have never suggested someone that did desire to be a student, even for a short time, should not go to college.

    I think we are clearly at a point where it is becoming obvious that you are not evaluating my opinion, but creating a straw man argument, and seeking some moral high ground arguing positions no one has communicated.

    3. I do not have any links....this is decades old. I was in school when these attempts were made, and the school was forced to settle on a coaching degree.

    http://catalog.wvu.edu/undergraduate...tsciences/ace/

    If you are not believing me for some reason, I am not sure what you do believe? Are you suggesting you feel regional accreditation associations would approve of a degree in football? I just find that a weird position to take, unless there is something I am missing.

  14. #42
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    6,022

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    1. Apples and oranges....you can't practice law or medicine unless you have a degree from an accredited university....or more accurately you are unable to take the exam to gain licensure to practice as a professional in those fields without the degree. Nothing requires a basketball player to attend college to be a professional in basketball.
    If you want to learn the craft best, you go where the best teachers are. That's college (at least right now). The degree is secondary to the learning. Apples to apples.

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    2. Anytime you place a student in a learning environment that has no interest in learning, there is a potential negative impact on others. Again, stay on subject, from the beginning, I have been talking about student athletes that have no interest in the academic part. You are claiming they want to go, but that simply is not true for many athletes. There was an entire documentary about Ben Simmons and others talking about how it was a waste of their time. Until we have a legitimate path, which it appears we are getting close to, many players viewed college as a requirement to become a professional basketball player. From the beginning, I have never suggested someone that did desire to be a student, even for a short time, should not go to college.
    Great, then this entire exercise is remarkably stupid.

    Every player who goes through the process of trying to get eligible (and it's definitely a process) wants to be a student.

    Some, admittedly, are bad students or do not understand what being a student entails.

    But that's true of virtually anyone who goes to college.

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    I think we are clearly at a point where it is becoming obvious that you are not evaluating my opinion, but creating a straw man argument, and seeking some moral high ground arguing positions no one has communicated.
    Be fair please. Stick to the arguments. I believe I have. And when I err, feel free to set me straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    3. I do not have any links....this is decades old. I was in school when these attempts were made, and the school was forced to settle on a coaching degree.

    http://catalog.wvu.edu/undergraduate...tsciences/ace/

    If you are not believing me for some reason, I am not sure what you do believe? Are you suggesting you feel regional accreditation associations would approve of a degree in football? I just find that a weird position to take, unless there is something I am missing.
    I don't think colleges and universities have sought majors for "basketball" and "football" because they recognize the impossible headaches of it. What you offer to one, you have to offer to all. Imagine Calipari or Archie Miller trying to hold practices with 150 would-be coaches looking on (and trying to earn a grade). How many of those guys would suggest an out-of-bounds play? How many would slow down practices? Or just watch-- and video? Do you think Urban Meyer would be willing to give up that control? Would any coach?

    Better for those coaches to work within the system. Almost all Division I colleges and universities, for example, have a "track" that includes public speaking, economics courses, event planning courses, and a variety of PE courses. For most high level athletes who aspire to be professionals, these are required. (Sam Bowie talked about the speaking courses multiple times. On the E:60 documentary, he said veteran players warned him how hard the public speaking courses were going to be.) Most of these tracks tie this in with Sports Management as a BS; others opt for the BA in Communications. (Most of my clients have either a Sports Management or Communications major, fwiw. Some own the degree.)

  15. #43
    We are back! Assembly Hall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, IN
    Posts
    2,239

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Good read...TY
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  16. #44
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Mid Ohio Valley
    Posts
    8,539

    UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    Matt Haarms to announce tomorrow and BYU is expected to be the pick.

    First losing to Walter McCarty and now losing a top grad transfer to Mark Pope. Not good for going against former players for Cal.
    Last edited by WVRed; 04-22-2020 at 10:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  17. #45
    We are back! Assembly Hall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, IN
    Posts
    2,239

    Re: UK Basketball 2020-2021: ? Has Entered the Draft/Transfer Portal

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Matt Haarms to announce tomorrow and BYU is expected to be the pick.

    First losing to Walter McCarty and now losing a top grad transfer to Mark Pope. Not good for going against former players for Cal.
    Haarms to BYU makes no sense...for Haarms that is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Matt Haarms to announce tomorrow and BYU is expected to be the pick.

    First losing to Walter McCarty and now losing a top grad transfer to Mark Pope. Not good for going against former players for Cal.
    Haarms to BYU makes no sense...for Haarms that is.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | cumberlandreds | Gallen5862 | Kinsm | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator