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Thread: 1975 Reds vs 1927 Yankees

  1. #61
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: 1975 Reds vs 1927 Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Advanced physical training techniques, nutrition, and the science of mental performance all add up to making anyone who tries to play baseball the best they could possibly be.

    But it's about talent. That's the great separator. Ruth's superior talent overcame his lack of discipline.

    Part of that was his superior eyesight. Ted Williams had that too. He also was driven to perfect his craft.

    But no amount of weight lifting or training of any kind will ever make up for talent.
    No, but Ruth would be bigger/faster/stronger growing up in the 1990's and 2000's than he was in the 1890's and 1900's, with everything else being the same. Just like everyone else from that time would be. He had the right stuff to be better than just about anyone in his time. That would be the same today. But the version of him growing up today would be much better than the other one because of the training and nutrition aspect of it - which is why every great athlete today is better than the ones from 50-100+ years ago.


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  3. #62
    Strategery RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: 1975 Reds vs 1927 Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    No, but Ruth would be bigger/faster/stronger growing up in the 1990's and 2000's than he was in the 1890's and 1900's, with everything else being the same. Just like everyone else from that time would be. He had the right stuff to be better than just about anyone in his time. That would be the same today. But the version of him growing up today would be much better than the other one because of the training and nutrition aspect of it - which is why every great athlete today is better than the ones from 50-100+ years ago.

    Those are the variables over which every athlete has control in ANY era.

    Talent is the variable beyond control.
    Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get me.

  4. #63
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: 1975 Reds vs 1927 Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Those are the variables over which every athlete has control in ANY era.

    Talent is the variable beyond control.
    Absolutely. But the original point was that guys playing pre-full integration were playing against watered down competition. Ruth was playing against dudes he didn't deserve, based on their talent, to be playing on the same field as he was - but they were there because they happened to be white. And comparing how much better that he was than the 1920's baseball players is not the same as comparing a guy to the league in 1970 because in 1970 everyone on that field was actually deserving of being in the Major Leagues based on their talent, not their skin color. A 150 OPS+ in 1925 is not as good as a 150 OPS+ in 1975 because of that difference. I'll die on that hill forever.

  5. #64
    Strategery RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: 1975 Reds vs 1927 Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Absolutely. But the original point was that guys playing pre-full integration were playing against watered down competition. Ruth was playing against dudes he didn't deserve, based on their talent, to be playing on the same field as he was - but they were there because they happened to be white. And comparing how much better that he was than the 1920's baseball players is not the same as comparing a guy to the league in 1970 because in 1970 everyone on that field was actually deserving of being in the Major Leagues based on their talent, not their skin color. A 150 OPS+ in 1925 is not as good as a 150 OPS+ in 1975 because of that difference. I'll die on that hill forever.

    If stats are your only measure, fine. What might the Dougdirt of 1927 have said had he the incredible good fortune of watching the Babe in person, over a long period of time?
    Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get me.

  6. #65
    Member jimbroznan's Avatar
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    Re: 1975 Reds vs 1927 Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Absolutely. But the original point was that guys playing pre-full integration were playing against watered down competition. Ruth was playing against dudes he didn't deserve, based on their talent, to be playing on the same field as he was - but they were there because they happened to be white. And comparing how much better that he was than the 1920's baseball players is not the same as comparing a guy to the league in 1970 because in 1970 everyone on that field was actually deserving of being in the Major Leagues based on their talent, not their skin color. A 150 OPS+ in 1925 is not as good as a 150 OPS+ in 1975 because of that difference. I'll die on that hill forever.
    First there is no doubt there were many Afro-American players in the Negro Leagues that were better players than white players in the Majors. However in 1927 the best white and black athletes all played baseball. In 1927 Major League baseball lost a lot of talent due to racism; in 1975 baseball lost a lot of talent due to declining popularity and economics. Ruth may not have played against the best but then in 1975 neither did Rose. If there had been a dominant NFL in 1927 would Ruth/Gehrig have opted to play football? In 1927 Kenny Anderson would likely have been the Red's ace pitching in the Majors, in 1975 he was playing for the Bengals. In the 1975 playoffs what if Terry Bradshaw had been the Pirates ace? The same for black players, one has to wonder in 1975 if there had been no NBA would Kareem or Walt Frazier played baseball and how good would they would have been, how many Bo Jackson did baseball never see? So a 1927 team with 100% of the nation's premium white professional athletes + 0 Afro-American players > or < a 1975 team with 33% of the nations premium white athlete and 4/5 players of African ancestry?

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    Re: 1975 Reds vs 1927 Yankees

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbroznan View Post
    First there is no doubt there were many Afro-American players in the Negro Leagues that were better players than white players in the Majors. However in 1927 the best white and black athletes all played baseball. In 1927 Major League baseball lost a lot of talent due to racism; in 1975 baseball lost a lot of talent due to declining popularity and economics. Ruth may not have played against the best but then in 1975 neither did Rose. If there had been a dominant NFL in 1927 would Ruth/Gehrig have opted to play football? In 1927 Kenny Anderson would likely have been the Red's ace pitching in the Majors, in 1975 he was playing for the Bengals. In the 1975 playoffs what if Terry Bradshaw had been the Pirates ace? The same for black players, one has to wonder in 1975 if there had been no NBA would Kareem or Walt Frazier played baseball and how good would they would have been, how many Bo Jackson did baseball never see? So a 1927 team with 100% of the nation's premium white professional athletes + 0 Afro-American players > or < a 1975 team with 33% of the nations premium white athlete and 4/5 players of African ancestry?
    And thins goes back to a point I made earlier. You can nit pick any generation of players to death for a variety of reasons. Just have fun with the exercise.


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