Uh, yeah, they are. Civil liberties aren't just for sometimes.Originally Posted by Kingspoint
Uh, yeah, they are. Civil liberties aren't just for sometimes.
alwaysawarrior (04-15-2020),Rojo (04-14-2020)
You don't think the Bill of Rights apply to the Raleigh Police?
Yes, this is all very true. But the word that sticks out is TEMPORARILY.
As of now, that word isn't well defined. And at the moment you see wide spread buy in. The social compact is working. But when you push that social compact without considering the consequences on the ones being lockdown that becomes a problem. And when someone decides that they have "the right" to tell the rest when TEMPORARY ends because they are somehow more omnipotent then the rest - that is a problem. And trying to shame them with all the "blood on your hands talk" is just disingenuous.
And I am not accusing you, your post was right on the money. It was just a post easy to work from because of the word TEMPORARY
Without the lockdown, their suffering would be worse than it is now. What part of this don't you understand? Manhattan dictates the economy of the U.S. Without the lockdown, Manhattan would not only not be able to operate, but it would be obliterated as we know it. The long-term effects of this would cause mass suffering that makes this hiccup in the economy seem like paradise.
The lockdown was necessary. Manhattan has to get going again, but if places that send people in and out of Manhattan lift their "restrictions", the wearing of gloves and facemasks, social distancing, etc. too soon, then they are going to be sending carriers in and out of Manhattan on an every second basis and Manhattan will never recover.
Everyone has to suffer a little so that everyone won't suffer a lot.
Too many people are going to die. It's a waste. But, as a mature society, supposedly we are, we need to limit as much as we can.
Just this week are the care home numbers trickling in that I spoke about weeks ago. 1000's are dying from pure neglect where they are being unattended for because workers aren't showing up. This isn't because of lockdown. It's because they are scared of getting the disease themselves and sharing it with their families.
The world has to work together to minimize the damage, and restrictions are a part of that recovery so economies can recover.
Last edited by Kingspoint; 04-14-2020 at 09:48 PM.
"One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."
North (04-14-2020)
Don't try to tell me about patriotism. That is just a red herring.
You act like YOU have the right to tell others how long they should give up their rights. WHO ELECTED YOU. The social compact is working, the vast majority are following the guidelines. But it is NOT UNREASONABLE for people that are giving up those rights, following the guidelines to ask - for HOW LONG am I being asked to give them up for the greater good, and how far does this extend into my life. Am I no longer able to play catch with a son on my private property. Is sitting in my car in a parking lot no longer OK even when I am clearly isolated from being able to spread or contract the virus.
A few civil liberties? What about the guy who has his life invested in a business like a restaurant or a hair salon? This shut down takes all his savings, causes him to file bankruptcy and he's never able to buy anything of significance the rest of his life. That's not just giving up a few civil liberties. Think about that
My mom is 97 and in a group care home in Washington state - don't try to give me that patronizing crap
KP, this is easy for you to report this since your family isn't seeing a loss of income from all of this. In fact the pharmacy business is probably booming. Try to picture someone putting a $100K debit on your credit card and then think about how you'd feel
Thank you.
"One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."
What part of when the lockdown ends don't you understand.
Yes we have a social responsibility to our fellow citizens as they do to us. And not all suffering can be equivalated. But discounting any one elses suffering because YOU KNOW which side of the coin they should come down on is REPULSIVE.
What part of that don't you understand.
I personally sacrificed over $60K per year every year more than six years ago in order to take care of my Mom 120 hours per week. The economic sacrifice in this family has been going on for years.
"One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."
Is this a violation of the Bill of Rights?
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...on/2990561001/
Four Michigan residents — three from Oakland County and one from Roscommon County — have filed a federal lawsuit against Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer over the impact of her executive orders on business, the use of privately owned property as well as the ability to associate with family and friends
The lawsuit filed Tuesday in United States Eastern District Court doesn’t question the “legitimate public purpose” of the order or Whitmer’s authority to issue it, but challenges the provisions that it argues conflict with the state and federal constitutions.
The lawsuit contends provisions of Whitmer’s stay-home order are “arbitrary, capricious, irrational and abusive.” The provisions violate the First Amendment right to freedom of association and the takings clause of the Fifth Amendment, which entitles individuals to compensation when their property rights are taken, according to the lawsuit filed by lawyer David Helm.
I get that but the government didn't impose that on you. This could cost folks the roof over their heads
Can you imagine the America of today having to make the years long sacrifices Americans made during WWII?
Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. -- Carl Sagan (Pale Blue Dot)
There's discounting someone else's suffering, something I certainly haven't done, and then there's self-centered attitudes of "I'm not going by any restrictions" when businesses are open again. Heck, 90% of Hispanics don't do it now around here. 50% of whites don't. 80% of rural people don't. It's appalling how out of touch so many people are with the suffering their actions impose upon others.
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No. We would lose the war. There's no doubt about that.
Last edited by Kingspoint; 04-14-2020 at 09:59 PM.
"One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."
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