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Thread: How you gonna baseball?

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    How you gonna baseball?

    The other thread has gone over the limit. MLB continues to kick around ideas. Sounds like the only firm one is the East/Central/West split. Practicality, safety and money still need to be hammered out. Yet maybe it gets sorted before we throw another 1,000 posts in here.
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  3. #2
    Member North's Avatar
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    The other thread has gone over the limit. MLB continues to kick around ideas. Sounds like the only firm one is the East/Central/West split. Practicality, safety and money still need to be hammered out. Yet maybe it gets sorted before we throw another 1,000 posts in here.
    Sorry to say, I just can't see them getting past the safety aspect. A couple of European soccer leagues attempted a start-up, but infection hit.

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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    I'm not a soccer guy, so I haven't followed the details, but aren't the EPL and La Liga on their way back right now?

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    They got a long ways to negotiate before this happens. As for the money, I don't see how the owners can give any more up. At 50% of revenues, that's an increase over what the players have been making. Some here have opined that the players have already given up half their salaries...well yeah, that's obvious...it's because they didn't play those games. That's irrelevant as we consider where to go from here.

    The players contracts were designed on filling stadiums with fans. Due to no fault of anyone, that's not happening. Therefore the players can't expect to get paid anywhere near in full if the owners aren't selling luxury boxes, field level seats, parking beer etc. Someone said that the owners are rich and can afford to eat that cost. Well, OK, the players are rich too. They all can afford to give something.

    If the avg career is about 5 yrs then the players risk losing 20% of their career earnings if they don't agree to this deal.

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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    I'm not a soccer guy, so I haven't followed the details, but aren't the EPL and La Liga on their way back right now?
    The German league is going to start next weekend baring any setbacks. Spain and England are trying to work through details to start in June, but I'd say both are unlikely to actually happen.

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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    They got a long ways to negotiate before this happens. As for the money, I don't see how the owners can give any more up. At 50% of revenues, that's an increase over what the players have been making. Some here have opined that the players have already given up half their salaries...well yeah, that's obvious...it's because they didn't play those games. That's irrelevant as we consider where to go from here.

    The players contracts were designed on filling stadiums with fans. Due to no fault of anyone, that's not happening. Therefore the players can't expect to get paid anywhere near in full if the owners aren't selling luxury boxes, field level seats, parking beer etc. Someone said that the owners are rich and can afford to eat that cost. Well, OK, the players are rich too. They all can afford to give something.

    If the avg career is about 5 yrs then the players risk losing 20% of their career earnings if they don't agree to this deal.
    The Reds have managed to pay salaries just fine the past few years while playing in front of an empty stadium
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    The Reds have managed to pay salaries just fine the past few years while playing in front of an empty stadium
    True story, but the poor souls who HAVE trekked down to the stadium swilled a LOT of beer.

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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    They got a long ways to negotiate before this happens. As for the money, I don't see how the owners can give any more up. At 50% of revenues, that's an increase over what the players have been making. Some here have opined that the players have already given up half their salaries...well yeah, that's obvious...it's because they didn't play those games. That's irrelevant as we consider where to go from here.

    The players contracts were designed on filling stadiums with fans. Due to no fault of anyone, that's not happening. Therefore the players can't expect to get paid anywhere near in full if the owners aren't selling luxury boxes, field level seats, parking beer etc. Someone said that the owners are rich and can afford to eat that cost. Well, OK, the players are rich too. They all can afford to give something.

    If the avg career is about 5 yrs then the players risk losing 20% of their career earnings if they don't agree to this deal.
    I think you answer your own question on how the owners "can" give any more up.
    1) The owners have more to gain from being able to put baseball back in the limelight(and more to lose if other sports were able to come back and baseball further fell into the background.)
    2) They have a longer timeline to make back whatever they "lose" this season. An average baseball player only has five years to maximize his greatest income earning power. How long does the average owner have to make back whatever the net loss ends up being this season?

    While you're right that this would appear to give the owner leverage in busting the player's union, if baseball's owners were more concerned with growing the game rather than minimizing their current expenses, they'd look past the net losses from this year and see the greater opportunity ahead.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I think you answer your own question on how the owners "can" give any more up.
    1) The owners have more to gain from being able to put baseball back in the limelight(and more to lose if other sports were able to come back and baseball further fell into the background.)
    2) They have a longer timeline to make back whatever they "lose" this season. An average baseball player only has five years to maximize his greatest income earning power. How long does the average owner have to make back whatever the net loss ends up being this season?

    While you're right that this would appear to give the owner leverage in busting the player's union, if baseball's owners were more concerned with growing the game rather than minimizing their current expenses, they'd look past the net losses from this year and see the greater opportunity ahead.
    When did I mention busting the union? Why would you attribute those words to me?

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    The vast majority of people in this country work for people who have far more money than they do. It could be a small company or a large corporation but regardless of size, there is always that person in the corner office who makes decisions that the people under him have to follow. I care zero about how much money players make, I really don't. I care about the Reds as an organization winning more games.

    The owners have always had more money, have been far more unified, and are far smarter than the players as a whole. They understand the economic impact of the game better that the players. Most states are starting to open back up, and all states have had a large force of "necessary" employees who have been working for the past months. There is also record unemployment throughout the nation with the numbers raising each and every week/month. It won't play well with the vast majority of fans if the players refuse to play a shortened season because they don't make enough money. Even in good times, it doesn't exactly play well, but tell nurses or firefighters or the unemployed that you were unwilling to cut your million dollar salary for one year.

    Baseball in general can't afford to not play this season if they are given the go ahead to do so. The only thing they hype up is "safety" but if it becomes a money issue, the players will lose.

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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    The vast majority of people in this country work for people who have far more money than they do. It could be a small company or a large corporation but regardless of size, there is always that person in the corner office who makes decisions that the people under him have to follow. I care zero about how much money players make, I really don't. I care about the Reds as an organization winning more games.

    The owners have always had more money, have been far more unified, and are far smarter than the players as a whole. They understand the economic impact of the game better that the players. Most states are starting to open back up, and all states have had a large force of "necessary" employees who have been working for the past months. There is also record unemployment throughout the nation with the numbers raising each and every week/month. It won't play well with the vast majority of fans if the players refuse to play a shortened season because they don't make enough money. Even in good times, it doesn't exactly play well, but tell nurses or firefighters or the unemployed that you were unwilling to cut your million dollar salary for one year.

    Baseball in general can't afford to not play this season if they are given the go ahead to do so. The only thing they hype up is "safety" but if it becomes a money issue, the players will lose.
    More unified?

    Hardly.

    The owners run a business on a model that is based solely on other people's talent. They may have more money but they aren't unified in how that pie is cut up. If the players union is as united as they have been in the past (and this time it's health and safety driving that need not just cash) they will get their fair share. If there is no season the owners will still have their billion dollar businesses and their properties. The players will lose a season out of a small slice of available seasons they have to offer the game. Sure that sucks, but giving in fifty years of forward progress in players rights and the future of those rights, as well as putting yourself at risk is a bigger loss for the players than one season. I believe the owners will be the ones to blink first.

    Because in the end they are never going to be unified

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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Hi all, new user and big Reds fan, thought I'd answer this as being English I could give a bit of insight into the question of 'soccer'. Our season is actually near the end, there are 7-9 games to go depending on which league. Because we have promotion and relegation in soccer, and relegation can cost a massive amount in TV revenue for teams who actually rely more on this than fan attendance, it is likely that a way out of this will be fraught and more will be decided in courts than in meetings or on the field. The current plan is that the Football League (tiers 2-4) will be decided on Points Per Game ratios (good for me as a Leeds United fan as we'd be Champions and promoted to the EPL) There is however a major question about relegation. Clubs won't accept not being given the chance to avoid it in their final games, tv companies won't accept any deal that takes away the drama of relegation. The Premier League is likely to finish behind closed doors, possibly with shortened games, extra substitutions.

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    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Welcome

    Is the current plan still to promote and relegate three clubs in and out of the Premier League? (I'm asking as a Fulham supporter nervously watching from afar.)

    Congratulations to Leeds on a great season.
    Last edited by paintmered; 05-12-2020 at 11:32 AM.
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    The owners[...] are far smarter than the players as a whole.
    What makes you say that?

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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    Welcome

    Is the current plan still to promote and relegate three clubs in and out of the Premier League? (I'm asking as a Fulham supporter nervously watching from afar.)

    Congratulations to Leeds on a great season.
    I think the 'plan' was always to try and complete the season. But in reality the logistics of 92 clubs playing so many games is unlikely to be possible given the number of medical staff you would need in attendance even without fans, for one thing. There is, in reality, no easy way of doing this. If the season is cancelled, Leeds, Fulham, Liverpool, any club qualifying for the Champions League, West Brom and all those who could have been promoted would sue. If the season is decided on Points per game, the clubs who would be relegated would sue on the basis that however unlikely they had 7-9 games to save themselves and were denied that opportunity. If teams are promoted and more teams relegated next season, the TV broadcasters who the clubs rely on to finance their transfer fees and salary commitments would also likely take legal action. It's massively complex because if Fulham are promoted from 3rd position, this is a playoff place for the third promotion spot so the teams in 4th-6th plus any team who could have mathematically reached the playoffs are likely to take action....similarly Fulham will likely take action if they are not allowed to at least compete for a promotion spot seeing as they have reached 3rd place..

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