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Thread: How you gonna baseball?

  1. #46
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm Chortleton View Post
    And to think, I used to like nutty old Bill when I knew him back in the late 80s, early 90s. Hope they don't take his advice.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    I know everyone wants baseball this year, but the key to his plan is the assumption that we will lose either this season or 2022. Logically, and not emotionally, it makes sense to lose this season, since it's already half lost.

    Now, if you think 2022 will not be lost due to CBA negotiations, then this suggestion doesn't make sense. I, however, agree with Bill. I am convinced that if we play this half season, we will lose baseball in 2022.
    Hoping to change my username to 75769024


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  3. #47
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Apologies if this is a daft question, but when you refer to a CBA I'm presuming you mean collective bargaining? What is involved in this exactly as I assumed players negotiate their own contracts through agents? Is it the league minimum salary or other things they're negotiating? It's not a thing here so I've not come across it before.

  4. #48
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by JFLegal View Post
    i love how both sides are getting killed on social media. if it's just posturing, fine. but if the season actually gets canceled because the owners and players can't make a one-year agreement to split the revenue, they are going to look horrible. and it will kill baseball.
    Millionaires squabbling with Billionaires while people don't know where their next meal might come from is a pretty bad look.I actually think there is validity to the arguments on both sides, but most people don't care about what happens with these guys rich people problems.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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  6. #49
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by EnglishRed View Post
    Apologies if this is a daft question, but when you refer to a CBA I'm presuming you mean collective bargaining? What is involved in this exactly as I assumed players negotiate their own contracts through agents? Is it the league minimum salary or other things they're negotiating? It's not a thing here so I've not come across it before.
    https://d39ba378-ae47-4003-86d3-147e...61b93715b5.pdf

    Nearly 400 pages of negotiated issues.

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  8. #50
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    And Toledo, OH St. John’s Jesuit alum Governor Doug Ducey leading the way:

    Arizona Governor Doug Ducey announces that major league sports can resume without fans starting this Saturday, May 16th.

    GO TITANS!
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  9. #51
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by EnglishRed View Post
    Apologies if this is a daft question, but when you refer to a CBA I'm presuming you mean collective bargaining? What is involved in this exactly as I assumed players negotiate their own contracts through agents? Is it the league minimum salary or other things they're negotiating? It's not a thing here so I've not come across it before.
    The CBA is the agreement between the owners and the player's union. Since MLB has an anti-trust exemption, they have the ability to set any rules they want, which resulted in the "reserve clause" forcing players to sign with their original team for decades. That obviously resulted in greatly suppressed salaries.

    In 1968, the players finally formed a powerful union, and in order to keep their anti-trust exemption, the owners agreed to drop the reserve clause, and ever since then, they have been arguing on the best and fairest system without one. It's been messy and resulted in multiple strikes and one cancelling of the season in 1994. It's still messy, and in 2022, they negotiate another deal.

    Here is good, but lengthy article on the history of the MLB CBA

    https://tht.fangraphs.com/a-history-...eement-part-1/
    Hoping to change my username to 75769024

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  11. #52
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The CBA is the agreement between the owners and the player's union. Since MLB has an anti-trust exemption, they have the ability to set any rules they want, which resulted in the "reserve clause" forcing players to sign with their original team for decades. That obviously resulted in greatly suppressed salaries.

    In 1968, the players finally formed a powerful union, and in order to keep their anti-trust exemption, the owners agreed to drop the reserve clause, and ever since then, they have been arguing on the best and fairest system without one. It's been messy and resulted in multiple strikes and one cancelling of the season in 1994. It's still messy, and in 2022, they negotiate another deal.

    Here is good, but lengthy article on the history of the MLB CBA

    https://tht.fangraphs.com/a-history-...eement-part-1/
    thank you! And to Kinsm for the link. I should have probably just googled this

  12. #53
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    I think a lot of the challenge with negotiations on the players' side is that they do not want even a sniff of a framework for salary cap to be put in place; the owners' revenue sharing plan amounts to exactly this. I'd venture that this, along with assurances of testing and some player safety guarantees will be some of the most important pillars to be in any deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Thus his team was punished
    Long live punishment
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Cut back on booze and pizza?
    Good god man get a hold of yourself

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  14. #54
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Millionaires squabbling with Billionaires while people don't know where their next meal might come from is a pretty bad look.I actually think there is validity to the arguments on both sides, but most people don't care about what happens with these guys rich people problems.
    This is the crux of the argument that often goes unnoticed by the union. For baseball this season, its not about money, its not about going to a game, its about a break from reality. Its about turning the TV on and catching the Reds play. Its about turning on the radio and listening to a game when there is a ton of uncertainty in everyday life. \

    Sport may be the greatest distraction we have. It allows us to be lost in a game for hours. In a time when we have no idea if our job will be there in weeks, or when we will be able to gather with our friends/family again, sport matters. If they can find a way to play baseball safely (and I believe by June) they can, then it should be done.

    For all those out there who say "we shouldn't do this while others are suffering" or "we should have test for baseball when others can't get it" baseball eases that suffering. Baseball gives someone hope, hope that when everything seems to be collapsing, there is still some sense of normalcy we can turn to.

    Baseball has a chance to return when the entire sports world is clamoring for sport. If they screw it up, god help them.

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  16. #55
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    This is the crux of the argument that often goes unnoticed by the union. For baseball this season, its not about money, its not about going to a game, its about a break from reality. Its about turning the TV on and catching the Reds play. Its about turning on the radio and listening to a game when there is a ton of uncertainty in everyday life. \

    Sport may be the greatest distraction we have. It allows us to be lost in a game for hours. In a time when we have no idea if our job will be there in weeks, or when we will be able to gather with our friends/family again, sport matters. If they can find a way to play baseball safely (and I believe by June) they can, then it should be done.

    For all those out there who say "we shouldn't do this while others are suffering" or "we should have test for baseball when others can't get it" baseball eases that suffering. Baseball gives someone hope, hope that when everything seems to be collapsing, there is still some sense of normalcy we can turn to.

    Baseball has a chance to return when the entire sports world is clamoring for sport. If they screw it up, god help them.
    They means the owners too right?

  17. #56
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I think I'm communicating ill intent when none is intended. This is a negotiation.

    As you said in the original post I was responding to "If the avg career is about 5 yrs then the players risk losing 20% of their career earnings if they don't agree to this deal."
    That's leverage which the owners possess. That doesn't make it wrong or evil, its just a statement of fact.

    They can, if they choose, use that leverage and maximize the payroll reductions the players will accept. I just don't think that's wise.
    They're much better off both long term and short term maximizing the value of this season to a)take the opportunity to be the only game in town and b)preserve and enhance the various media contract revenue which is a much much larger part of their revenue pie than attendance.

    If you're saying, "As for the money, I don't see how the owners can give any more up." Than it sounds like you'd be in favor of the owners not bending on salary in the forthcoming negotiation. I think whatever additional concessions the owners give will be paid back in additional eyeballs and consumers both now and in the future.
    There's leverage on both sides. If they don't play at all then the owners are out a ton of money. You're implying that the owners have leverage over the players and I disagree. I don't think either side has a disproportionate amount of leverage over the other

  18. #57
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    I think a lot of the challenge with negotiations on the players' side is that they do not want even a sniff of a framework for salary cap to be put in place; the owners' revenue sharing plan amounts to exactly this. I'd venture that this, along with assurances of testing and some player safety guarantees will be some of the most important pillars to be in any deal.
    I read a figure from an article that said owners estimate that gate money would reduce their income by 40%. If players would prefer a 40% cut in their salaries for the remaining games I'm sure that could be arranged. Somehow I doubt it's that simple

  19. #58
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    They means the owners too right?
    Oh ownership is absolutely is a key player in this. And if they manage to screw it up, they should be faulted as well.

    Thing is, for 90% of the baseball fans, they may know the owner of their team, but they have no clue about who owns the rest of the teams.

    If the season doesn't happen, the players will take the vast majority of the blame.

  20. #59
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Oh ownership is absolutely is a key player in this. And if they manage to screw it up, they should be faulted as well.

    Thing is, for 90% of the baseball fans, they may know the owner of their team, but they have no clue about who owns the rest of the teams.

    If the season doesn't happen, the players will take the vast majority of the blame.
    They have health concerns, if that's why they take the blame then so be it

    “We want to figure out how safe we can make not only the players but our coaches who are now in an age bracket with a higher risk, our medical staff, our training staff,” one player said, speaking on the condition of anonymity. “How about all the non-uniformed players who help us perform? The analysts? The scouts? We’re not just looking out for us. It’s not right for us to look out just for ourselves.”

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  22. #60
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    Re: How you gonna baseball?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Oh ownership is absolutely is a key player in this. And if they manage to screw it up, they should be faulted as well.

    Thing is, for 90% of the baseball fans, they may know the owner of their team, but they have no clue about who owns the rest of the teams.

    If the season doesn't happen, the players will take the vast majority of the blame.
    People understand these are unprecedented times. Everything's being cancelled. If MLB is added to that casualty list for 2020, few will blame any group. They'll understand it was done in the name of safety


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