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Thread: Day 2 MLB Draft

  1. #136
    Member podgejeff_'s Avatar
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    Miller struck me as a weird pick. Drafted as a catcher with next to no experience as a catcher and doesn't seem to have the bat projection of other Reds position players.
    If there were a catcher with the bat projection of other Reds position players he'd be a no doubt first round pick.

    He's a catcher who can stick behind the plate and possibly carry an average bat. If he hits his ceiling that's valuable. If he can turn into Robinson Chirinos or Jason Castro that's a 7 million a year player.


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  3. #137
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    I just hope he’s not the next Jackson Melian
    Go BLUE!!!

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  5. #138
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    Same with me. I was turned off by the last regime's picking what I referred to as "all round gym rats". Guys that played MI or CF with no big tools. THey all seemd to end up mediocre at best. (and their insistence on HS pitchers).

    New regime seems to be focusing on college pitchers, and players with big offensive upside. (mostly HS).

    Miller seems like the anomaly. The all round talent, coaches kid, whose family literally owns a gym. I hope he works because at that spot we passed on some pretty good guys.

    I'm most excited to see what Wainright can do. I think he might be diamond in the rough. (I'm expecting Hendrick to be good).
    That Buckley kept his job for as long as he did was a real head scratcher- especially after that God-awful 2014 draft.
    Go BLUE!!!

  6. #139
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by podgejeff_ View Post
    If there were a catcher with the bat projection of other Reds position players he'd be a no doubt first round pick.

    He's a catcher who can stick behind the plate and possibly carry an average bat. If he hits his ceiling that's valuable. If he can turn into Robinson Chirinos or Jason Castro that's a 7 million a year player.
    It doesn't make it a bad pick, but he's been a catcher for nine games. You can certainly evaluate the tools, but it's not like they've got evidence he's Pudge Rodriguez back there.

    Couple that with the lighter bat, and Miller stands out against the other picks. He's a Buckley, and it appears makeup is a healthy piece of the evaluation.

  7. #140
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    The Miller pick is a pretty big head-scratcher. Seems like a kid they could've snagged in the last round.

    Love the Roa & Bonnin picks, they seem like the safest bets to get the bigs and might do so fairly soon. I guess I approve of the Wainwright & Boyle selections, both will be projects, especially Boyle.

  8. #141
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    My neighbor’s son goes to school with Wainwright, I asked him about him this morning. His words:

    “Oh yeah, I know Mac, he barely graduated, haha. But, I guess it didn’t matter in the end!”

    Good thing baseball isn’t a spelling competition!

    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  10. #142
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    My neighbor’s son goes to school with Wainwright, I asked him about him this morning. His words:

    “Oh yeah, I know Mac, he barely graduated, haha. But, I guess it didn’t matter in the end!”

    Good thing baseball isn’t a spelling competition!

    And yet, he had multiple scholarship offers to play football.

  11. #143
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    You act as if education and football scholarships are somehow connected.
    Bud Selig: "I'm the worst commissioner ever"
    Rob Manfred: "Hold my beer"

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  13. #144
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by RED VAN HOT View Post
    And yet, he had multiple scholarship offers to play football.
    Including one from my alma mater, U of Toledo - haha!
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  14. #145
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    You act as if education and football scholarships are somehow connected.
    Could it be more that he would have to academically qualify to go to schools on an athletic scholarship?

  15. #146
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    Wainwright seems like a pretty awesome kid with a good head on his shoulders. Seems like he has a "why are you playing baseball?" chip on his shoulder and is acutely aware of the fact that black players have all but disappeared from the sport. Glad he's a Red.

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  17. #147
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    Same with me. I was turned off by the last regime's picking what I referred to as "all round gym rats". Guys that played MI or CF with no big tools. THey all seemd to end up mediocre at best. (and their insistence on HS pitchers).

    New regime seems to be focusing on college pitchers, and players with big offensive upside. (mostly HS).

    Miller seems like the anomaly. The all round talent, coaches kid, whose family literally owns a gym. I hope he works because at that spot we passed on some pretty good guys.

    I'm most excited to see what Wainright can do. I think he might be diamond in the rough. (I'm expecting Hendrick to be good).
    It is always interesting to me to see how fans evaluate Chris Buckley. I should say that while I have nothing against Mr. Buckley personally, I would probably rate him about as harshly as anyone on Redszone, but not for any of the reasons given by most fans. When I read the evaluations, often times, my first thought is that you sound like you are describing the opposite of what Buckley generally focused on.

    If you added up the combined total number of pro games played by all of Buckley’s draft picks over his tenure as Reds scouting director, and identified the person who saw the highest number of those games, I would wonder if that person might be me. It is hard to nail down a philosophy because different points of a 40-round draft have different philosophies. You can take more chances in the later rounds, but those rounds are how you build a winning culture in your system. The early rounds are obviously the most important. My chief complaint would be that he took too many guys early who had one plus tool but lacked baseball skills and were never going to develop baseball skills. See Kevin Franklin, Gabriel Rosa, and the list could go on and on. Second round picks who never become more than backups in low-A are bad misses.

    I read some fan comments wanting to prioritize “upside.” That is one of those terms that sounds great until you break down what you are really saying. Franklin and Rosa were upside picks. On the other hand, guys like Nick Senzel, Todd Frazier, and Jesse Winker would be the opposite. They were ball players with baseball skills.

    If all other things are equal, every scout in baseball history is going to draft the player with more upside (better tools). That is obvious. But that isn’t the choice you are making with a pick. It isn’t that easy. You are not choosing between two players who are equal except that one of them has clearly higher upside than the other. Those two players wouldn’t be drafted in the same round. So what it really comes down to is this: what exactly are you willing to sacrifice to take the player with higher upside (better tools)? Are you willing to sacrifice baseball skills? Work ethic? Character? Ability to be coached? A burning desire to become great rather than being satisfied to just live the life (a big difference maker among prospects...see Joey Votto)?

    Lastly, and this one is big, if you take nothing but high-upside types, you get farm clubs filled with bad players who are real athletic and physically gifted, but your prospects never learn to win because (like the Reds have seen) your players come through the minors expecting to lose when they show up each day. And they usually do. They never develop that confidence to pull out a close game or put a team away when they can. For these reasons, you have to mix in different philosophies as the draft moves along. Buckley was notorious for refusing to take the pitcher with average stuff who was his conference pitcher of the year in college, and instead taking a guy off the same team who got 12 innings of work all year because his coach wouldn’t put him in, even though he threw 94, but couldn’t get anyone out (remember Jacob Moody). You need a mix of both types. Buckley never figured that out.

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  19. #148
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    Since you quoted me, let me say that my comments about upside, HS pitchers, and gym rats, was based on like the first 3 rounds. The critical ones. I agree with your comments about building a winning culture in the minors.
    Bud Selig: "I'm the worst commissioner ever"
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  20. #149
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    Since you quoted me, let me say that my comments about upside, HS pitchers, and gym rats, was based on like the first 3 rounds. The critical ones. I agree with your comments about building a winning culture in the minors.
    The guys Ro72Â’s talking about were top two or three round picks as well. I feel like Buckley swung puzzlingly far in both directions and couldnÂ’t find a middle ground. Lamarre/Lohman/Gelalich had utility player upside from the start and the Rosa/Franklin style picks had zero baseball skills beyond swinging hard in BP.

  21. #150
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    Re: Day 2 MLB Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by redsof72 View Post
    It is always interesting to me to see how fans evaluate Chris Buckley. I should say that while I have nothing against Mr. Buckley personally, I would probably rate him about as harshly as anyone on Redszone, but not for any of the reasons given by most fans. When I read the evaluations, often times, my first thought is that you sound like you are describing the opposite of what Buckley generally focused on.

    If you added up the combined total number of pro games played by all of Buckley’s draft picks over his tenure as Reds scouting director, and identified the person who saw the highest number of those games, I would wonder if that person might be me. It is hard to nail down a philosophy because different points of a 40-round draft have different philosophies. You can take more chances in the later rounds, but those rounds are how you build a winning culture in your system. The early rounds are obviously the most important. My chief complaint would be that he took too many guys early who had one plus tool but lacked baseball skills and were never going to develop baseball skills. See Kevin Franklin, Gabriel Rosa, and the list could go on and on. Second round picks who never become more than backups in low-A are bad misses.

    I read some fan comments wanting to prioritize “upside.” That is one of those terms that sounds great until you break down what you are really saying. Franklin and Rosa were upside picks. On the other hand, guys like Nick Senzel, Todd Frazier, and Jesse Winker would be the opposite. They were ball players with baseball skills.

    If all other things are equal, every scout in baseball history is going to draft the player with more upside (better tools). That is obvious. But that isn’t the choice you are making with a pick. It isn’t that easy. You are not choosing between two players who are equal except that one of them has clearly higher upside than the other. Those two players wouldn’t be drafted in the same round. So what it really comes down to is this: what exactly are you willing to sacrifice to take the player with higher upside (better tools)? Are you willing to sacrifice baseball skills? Work ethic? Character? Ability to be coached? A burning desire to become great rather than being satisfied to just live the life (a big difference maker among prospects...see Joey Votto)?

    Lastly, and this one is big, if you take nothing but high-upside types, you get farm clubs filled with bad players who are real athletic and physically gifted, but your prospects never learn to win because (like the Reds have seen) your players come through the minors expecting to lose when they show up each day. And they usually do. They never develop that confidence to pull out a close game or put a team away when they can. For these reasons, you have to mix in different philosophies as the draft moves along. Buckley was notorious for refusing to take the pitcher with average stuff who was his conference pitcher of the year in college, and instead taking a guy off the same team who got 12 innings of work all year because his coach wouldn’t put him in, even though he threw 94, but couldn’t get anyone out (remember Jacob Moody). You need a mix of both types. Buckley never figured that out.
    What do you think of the post-Buckley drafts?


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