Pete Rose Talks Reds 2020 Season

[HammerTime]

Pete Rose is boring now, wasn't back in the day that's for sure. It's been 31 years since he was suspended and I'm bored with him now. Every now and then I watch some old Pete footage and I'm not bored. Doesn't mean I condone his actions in anyway, nor does it mean I celebrate his non baseball actions.

But fighting about Pete Rose two days from the longest stretch of non baseball I've ever experience in my life is about as uninteresting as it gets

I think at this point everyone has pretty much made up their mind about Pete.

[dougdirt]

one word, and suddenly I feel like I know everything about you....or at least your perception

If that perception is that "Doug believes bad people shouldn't be celebrated or honored for things", then yeah, you got it right.

[foster15]

Isn't this what Pete did?

Many people questioned the games integrity after Pete. many of which are on Redszone.

Huh? This went down in 1989. Redzone didn't exist until about 2002 or so.

[Bruce Berenyi]

foster - he also messed up frank williams and rob murphy

[westofyou]

he was a good second baseman

Not really. He had trouble turning two, that was his Achilles Heel, plus big legs and that limited his range. If he had started his career on turf he would have probably been moved off it sooner

[CySeymour]

Not really. He had trouble turning two, that was his Achilles Heel, plus big legs and that limited his range. If he had started his career on turf he would have probably been moved off it sooner

They went and got Tommy Helms for a reason.

[dfs]

They went and got Tommy Helms for a reason.

Helms was signed and in the Red's minor league system before the signed Pete.
But yes....if Pete had been a good second baseman that wouldn't have create a crack for Helms to get real playing time.

[westofyou]

They went and got Tommy Helms for a reason.

Tried to get Pete to play third in 1966, he made a big stink and they switched them, taking less defense in the process.. to make Pete happy. Howsam and company corrected that

[dubc47834]

Huh? This went down in 1989. Redzone didn't exist until about 2002 or so.

No crap...I didn't say or imply that Redszone existed then, just that many are on Redszone currently!

[CySeymour]

Tried to get Pete to play third in 1966, he made a big stink and they switched them, taking less defense in the process.. to make Pete happy. Howsam and company corrected that

Wasn't Pete a solid outfielder? I figured he would have be a subpar defender at third, even then.

[RedsBaron]

Wasn't Pete a solid outfielder? I figured he would have be a subpar defender at third, even then.

He was a good leftfielder circa 1967-70, winning a couple of Gold Gloves. I don't think his outfield play was as well suited to the faster game on artificial turf and bigger ballparks after that, which put a greater premium on speed, but I haven't looked at his stats in a while.

[westofyou]

He was a good leftfielder circa 1967-70, winning a couple of Gold Gloves. I don't think his outfield play was as well suited to the faster game on artificial turf and bigger ballparks after that, which put a greater premium on speed, but I haven't looked at his stats in a while.

Exactly, he was hurt by the giant Riverfront OF

[RedsBaron]

Pete Rose is rightly banned from MLB for having bet on MLB games as a player and as a manager. Obviously, a manager who bet against the team he managed would have a huge incentive, and an ability, to intentionally lose the game. Even if the manager bet on his team to win a particular game, decisions he made in that game could possible adversely affect his team's chances to win other games, especially if he burnt out his pitching staff in order to win the game he bet on.
All that said, I have never seen any evidence that Rose in fact did cost the Reds games that he managed because of his betting. I'm not saying he didn't cost them games; I am just saying I have never seen evidence that he did so.
The Reds in Rose's tenure were usually a good enough team to contend but not good enough to finish first. However they generally played a little bit better with Rose as manager than they did with someone else at the helm, or they won a few more games than their Pythagorean calculation predicted, based upon runs scored compared to runs allowed.
The 1984 Reds were 51-70 before Rose became manager, a .421 winning percentage. Under Rose they went 19-22, .463. That 1984 team was bad, with a predicted record by Pythagorean of 68-94, .420.
The 1985 Reds went 89-72, while their Pythagorean record was a predicted 82-79.
The 1986 Reds went 86-76, better than their predicted 83-79.
1987 was the season Eric Davis was tremendous, a season that at times looked to be the Reds year. In the end their actual record was just as predicted by the Pythagorean, 84-78. That team was done in by terrible starting pitching.
The 1988 Reds went 87-74, a hair better than their predicted 86-75.
Even the terrible 1989 season, played under the cloud of the investigation and ultimately the suspension of Rose, had the Reds playing better under Rose, 59-66, .472, than under Tommy Helms, 16-21, .432. Their Pythagorean record was an expected 74-88, .457.
I'm not defending Rose at all, and maybe the Reds teams those seasons would have played better with another manager, and I am aware that the 1990 Reds won a World Series the first full season after Rose was banned. I am saying that, based upon runs scored and allowed, their record was generally just a bit better than predicted with Rose as the manager.

[kaldaniels]

If the Reds decide to say, name their next stadium after Pete, I certainly would be fine with engaging his past and I would certainly oppose such a thing.

But a puff piece by the Enquirer or whatever with his thoughts on the season, honestly, I’m gonna read it. If Pete’s past bothers you to the point that you don’t want to read it, don’t. But do we really have to pile on every time his name is mentioned?

The deification of the BRM (I don’t mind it that much - it is one of the greatest sports teams/lineups ever assembled) and even the ‘90 team is something that warrants discussion as it’s a bit much for me.

But virtue signaling every time the name Peter Edward Rose is mentioned? C’mon.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Rose believes the Reds could jump out to a successful start if the middle relief pitching is consistent during the first few weeks of the season.

#gulp