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Thread: Covid-19, Part VII - Staying On Topic...

  1. #421
    Member BernieCarbo's Avatar
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    Re: Covid-19, Part VII - Staying On Topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    In Germany if someone dies of a heart attack while on a ventilator fighting COVID does that count as a COVID death or heart attack death? If it counts as a heart attack death it sounds like the Germans are doing it wrong to me.
    They look at the patient and see if the Covid caused the heart failure, or if it was just a person with Covid that tested positive. If you look at Belgium or France, they are much more lenient and count anyone who was even suspected of having Covid and as a result they have a much higher rate. The whole thing is a moving target, and final numbers will definitely be recalculated.

    But, even in Germany, if a person is in a nursing home and tests positive and dies, that is counted as a covid death. But if a person was living at home and goes to the hospital for some reason and dies and it is found out later that he tested positive, that won't count. This happened recently to my brother in law's neighbor who was in her mid nineties with bone cancer, and she finally failed and had to go to the hospital. When he talked to her family afterwards, they said the death certificate stated cancer, as it should.

    At the end of the day, we'll have to do a deep analysis of excess deaths to really know what happened, and posting graphs and charts is not really helpful or very telling right now. But hopefully it will also be a wake-up call in this country on how we care for the elderly and how our policies encourage obesity and diabetes in the young.

    It's no secret that we screwed up testing in a big way, and we value privacy much more than other countries so contact tracing will never work, but if anyone takes the emotion out of it and looks at the actual people who died, it is clear who we failed the most. My daughter is a combat medic and was one of soldiers that went to a nursing home to help sanitize and assist the staff, and she was appalled at the general cleanliness, and this wasn't some slum nursing home. We can do better.


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  3. #422
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Covid-19, Part VII - Staying On Topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    If someone is dying of pancreatic cancer, but they catch pneumonia and that's the last straw, does that go down as a cancer death or a pneumonia death? Never really thought about it.
    Not a doctor but I would guess “complications from pneumonia while fighting pancreatic cancer.”

    So, both. Just like a heart attack while fighting COVID should be both.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  4. #423
    Member RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Covid-19, Part VII - Staying On Topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Not a doctor but I would guess “complications from pneumonia while fighting pancreatic cancer.”

    So, both. Just like a heart attack while fighting COVID should be both.
    One thing to describe it narratively. Different thing entirely to have a code for it in a database and to have those codes applied consistently across the myriad complex medical scearios.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  5. #424
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Covid-19, Part VII - Staying On Topic...

    For the record, the way that Germany counts Covid deaths also was done in some US states. It is true there is no uniformity over how deaths or even cases are counted and there will be an adjustment at some point when a true analytic analysis of all the data is done.

    However, this would affect the numbers by percentage points, maybe double digit percentage points. The US has close to 5 times as many deaths than Germany after you factor in population. There is no way the way they count deaths accounts for that difference. The numbers are clear on this.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
    “You got the pitching, now what?” - Reds fans

  6. #425
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Covid-19, Part VII - Staying On Topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    One thing to describe it narratively. Different thing entirely to have a code for it in a database and to have those codes applied consistently across the myriad complex medical scearios.
    ICD-10 codes are real - https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/icd/icd10cm.htm

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