Covid-19, Part VII - Staying On Topic...

[kaldaniels]

That's the joke.

I guess I missed it McBain.

[Falls City Beer]

Also maybe cultural?

Could be. Don’t know. Capitalist, plural, international, democratic. No state religion. But there certainly are differences. Just don’t which ones are relevant.

[schmidty622]

Could be. Don’t know. Capitalist, plural, international, democratic. No state religion. But there certainly are differences. Just don’t which ones are relevant.

But you have questions about why Bangladeshis and the Vietnamese have responded differently because they both live in jungles?

Cool.

[kaldaniels]

Could be. Don’t know. Capitalist, plural, international, democratic. No state religion. But there certainly are differences. Just don’t which ones are relevant.

Yeah I don’t think we’ve done a good job handling things. But where did things go wrong?

No masks?
Opening up early/shutting down late?
Testing/tracing issues? (We do test more than anyone)
Other?

I am just genuinely curious where things went wrong. One can say “well it’s all of the above” but I suspect some things are more important than others.

[WrongVerb]

Yeah I don’t think we’ve done a good job handling things. But where did things go wrong?

No masks?
Opening up early/shutting down late?
Testing/tracing issues? (We do test more than anyone)
Other?

I am just genuinely curious where things went wrong. One can say “well it’s all of the above” but I suspect some things are more important than others.

Didn't coordinate a country wide shutdown. Initial testing kits were flawed.

[757690]

Didn't coordinate a country wide shutdown. Initial testing kits were flawed.

Agreeing with you and adding more detail.

It’s been shown with data a few times in every incarnation of this thread.

Places that took it seriously, instituted a national plan (plans vary by place) that emphasized testing and contract tracing, overall did much better than those that didn’t. With anything, a few exceptions on both sides, but the evidence is rather clear on this.

I am sure after this is over, we will learn more and be able to provide more detail, more nuance, but right now, we really don’t need to go much deeper than that.

[Coopdaddy67]

Didn't coordinate a country wide shutdown. Initial testing kits were flawed.

Given the constitutional limitations, a coordinated national shutdown was never going to happen.

[757690]

Given the constitutional limitations, a coordinated national shutdown was never going to happen.

I agree. It had to be done state by state. But we saw for around a month every state shut down in someway. With national direction, it could have been stronger and better coordinated.

[Coopdaddy67]

I agree. It had to be done state by state. But we saw for around a month every state shut down in someway. With national direction, it could have been stronger and better coordinated.

The first time the feds tried to unilaterally put in place a hardline national policy, they were told (correctly) they had no say in the matter. You couldn't have gotten 10 states on the same page, let alone 50. Frankly, I think national input could only make things worse given the partisan nature of these things.

One of the big issues was the NY subway system never being shut down. Various studies suggest a majority of the country's cases may be directly traced back there.

Going forward, it just comes down to personal responsibility and common courtesy. We can't realistically shut down again as most of the population won't comply.

The thing I worry about more than anything is young kids. They need to be in school, not only for learning but socializing.

[WrongVerb]

Given the constitutional limitations, a coordinated national shutdown was never going to happen.

That's why I chose the word "coordinated." It couldn't be imposed.

That said, perhaps we've found a flaw in federalism. A Constitutional Amendment might be needed for situations like this in the future.

[M2]

Y’all are a deeply incurious bunch.

It's like we got to the end of the Scooby-Doo episode, they've pulled the mask off the supposed ghost to reveal it was the creepy groundskeeper and you're still wondering where the ghost went.

Public health is a real and important function inside of government. We rely on people to do it well. We're getting a lesson in what happens when we don't. Every success story on this disease has identified where it has spread, taken measures to stop its transmission and kept those measures in place until the numbers got extremely low. We've fallen down miserably on those last two points.

[Coopdaddy67]

That said, perhaps we've found a flaw in federalism. A Constitutional Amendment might be needed for situations like this in the future.

I think that would be opening up a huge can of worms. I don't think you'd see any support for that politically, but if it somehow passed, we all know it would be exploited.

One of the things some Asian countries have going for them are social norms (ie: cleanliness, obedience). Then of course there are other countries where they can shut down regions by force and pretty much eliminate your rights.

Honestly, the thing that hurts us the most is our freedom to do almost anything we want. That includes the freedom to be stupid/selfish, which is on full display right now. This morning, all I had on my twitter timeline was photos of mass protests with most people wearing masks incorrectly or not wearing them at all.

[Falls City Beer]

Even in 1918 there were anti-mask protesters. So yeah it could be something baked into the culture.

[Bob Sheed]

1. Greed
2. Stupidity
3. Selfishness
4. Malevolence

[mth123]

1. Greed
2. Stupidity
3. Selfishness
4. Malevolence

The four horseman of US Politics.