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Thread: 100 Pitch Count

  1. #16
    Member Norm Chortleton's Avatar
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    Re: 100 Pitch Count

    Quote Originally Posted by mgbrown66 View Post
    Do they all have personalized license plates that read FLLCOUNT?
    Maybe "3 AND 2." The term full count isn't used anymore.

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  3. #17
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    Re: 100 Pitch Count

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Nah, there were just a lot of really terrible players back in the day. They didn't hit much, so top pitchers weren't under constant stress. Larry Bowa used to hit 2nd for an ostensibly really good team, and he was terrible. Now even a guy as dominant as Clayton Kershaw tops out at 7.3 IP/GS at his peak (and his peak was outrageously good) because pitchers have no leeway. Leave guys in too long and they get gang tackled and eaten by the opposing lineup. It's a recipe for losing ballgames and pitcher injuries. Pitch your top reliever day after day after day and he'll melt down right in front of your eyes.

    You've got the strategy exactly backwards too. They're doing everything they can to win today. Back in the day they weren't poring over every detail looking for the most minute advantage to turn the game. They used to let managers play hunches and if they worked out (usually because his players were better than the other team's players), he was a confirmed genius. It was crazy entertaining, but let's not pretend it hasn't been a relic for more than two decades.
    Wrong. Aces pitched into extra innings. Nowadays, they will remove a guy pitching a perfect game in the 6th if his pitch count is to high. And starting catchers played a lot more games back then. They pour over the data available because it's available, but they don't look at every game as a must win like they did in the past. They went with 4 man rotations more back then to avoid the 5th starter if at all possible. And they cared a hell of a lot less about the future of their great pitchers favoring getting all they can this season out of them and will worry about next year when this season is over.

  4. #18
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: 100 Pitch Count

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Nah, there were just a lot of really terrible players back in the day. They didn't hit much, so top pitchers weren't under constant stress. Larry Bowa used to hit 2nd for an ostensibly really good team, and he was terrible. Now even a guy as dominant as Clayton Kershaw tops out at 7.3 IP/GS at his peak (and his peak was outrageously good) because pitchers have no leeway. Leave guys in too long and they get gang tackled and eaten by the opposing lineup. It's a recipe for losing ballgames and pitcher injuries. Pitch your top reliever day after day after day and he'll melt down right in front of your eyes.

    You've got the strategy exactly backwards too. They're doing everything they can to win today. Back in the day they weren't poring over every detail looking for the most minute advantage to turn the game. They used to let managers play hunches and if they worked out (usually because his players were better than the other team's players), he was a confirmed genius. It was crazy entertaining, but let's not pretend it hasn't been a relic for more than two decades.

    I'd expect guys to challenge these guys and limit the ab to a couple of pitches

    Code:
    OBA                      YEAR     OBA      PA      OUTS       G
    Charley Smith            1965     .273      531      402      135
    Bob Aspromonte           1963     .276      514      389      136
    Jim Hickman              1963     .291      546      401      146
    Clete Boyer              1967     .292      619      455      154
    Bob Aspromonte           1966     .297      603      451      152
    Jim Davenport            1963     .297      509      374      147
    Mike Shannon             1967     .302      528      385      130
    Tony Taylor              1968     .302      598      433      145
    Bob Bailey               1963     .303      640      465      154
    Ken Boyer                1966     .304      534      390      136
    
    SLG                      YEAR     SLG      PA      OUTS       G
    Bob Aspromonte           1963     .306      514      389      136
    Tony Taylor              1968     .311      598      433      145
    Maury Wills              1968     .316      685      496      153
    Bob Aspromonte           1965     .322      628      451      152
    Bob Bailey               1963     .328      640      465      154
    Jim Davenport            1963     .333      509      374      147
    Bob Aspromonte           1966     .334      603      451      152
    Bob Bailey               1965     .363      702      502      159
    Maury Wills              1967     .365      664      462      149
    Jim Lefebvre             1967     .366      553      392      136
    
    SHORTSTOP
    
    OBA                      YEAR     OBA      PA      OUTS       G
    Hal Lanier               1968     .222      518      425      151
    Hal Lanier               1967     .239      557      446      151
    Leo Cardenas             1963     .270      601      459      158
    Don Kessinger            1967     .275      628      473      145
    Tito Fuentes             1966     .276      564      420      133
    Jose Pagan               1963     .277      519      389      148
    Roy McMillan             1965     .280      574      425      157
    Dick Schofield           1965     .282      548      408      132
    Don Kessinger            1968     .283      707      526      160
    Sonny Jackson            1967     .285      566      430      129
    
    SLG                      YEAR     SLG      PA      OUTS       G
    Hal Lanier               1968     .239      518      425      151
    Hal Lanier               1967     .255      557      446      151
    Dick Schofield           1965     .256      548      408      132
    Don Kessinger            1967     .272      628      473      145
    Dal Maxvill              1967     .279      530      386      152
    Sonny Jackson            1967     .283      566      430      129
    Don Kessinger            1968     .287      707      526      160
    Roy McMillan             1965     .292      574      425      157
    Dal Maxvill              1968     .298      516      357      151
    Roberto Pena             1968     .300      546      396      138
    
    SECOND BASE
    
    OBA                      YEAR     OBA      PA      OUTS       G
    Cookie Rojas             1968     .248      650      511      152
    Hal Lanier               1965     .256      556      439      159
    Glenn Beckert            1965     .275      653      497      154
    Julian Javier            1964     .282      574      430      155
    Ken Hubbs                1963     .285      614      466      154
    Bill Mazeroski           1963     .286      576      428      142
    Julian Javier            1968     .291      553      406      139
    Bill Mazeroski           1967     .292      679      501      163
    Bill Mazeroski           1965     .294      527      390      130
    Frank Bolling            1965     .295      577      427      148
    
    SLG                      YEAR     SLG      PA      OUTS       G
    Hal Lanier               1965     .289      556      439      159
    Ron Hunt                 1968     .297      650      430      148
    Glenn Beckert            1965     .298      653      497      154
    Cookie Rojas             1968     .306      650      511      152
    Frank Bolling            1963     .312      606      442      142
    Bill Mazeroski           1968     .312      556      411      143
    Tony Taylor              1964     .316      636      450      154
    Nellie Fox               1964     .319      502      358      133
    Ken Hubbs                1963     .322      614      466      154
    Pete Rose                1964     .326      558      397      136

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    M2 (08-07-2020),Ron Madden (08-07-2020)

  6. #19
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 100 Pitch Count

    Quote Originally Posted by foster15 View Post
    Wrong. Aces pitched into extra innings. Nowadays, they will remove a guy pitching a perfect game in the 6th if his pitch count is to high. And starting catchers played a lot more games back then. They pour over the data available because it's available, but they don't look at every game as a must win like they did in the past. They went with 4 man rotations more back then to avoid the 5th starter if at all possible. And they cared a hell of a lot less about the future of their great pitchers favoring getting all they can this season out of them and will worry about next year when this season is over.
    The game was easier for pitchers so they could do that. Now it's not and you can't do that. Also, there were valuable lessons to be learned from Billy Ball. #1 was don't do it.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  7. Likes:

    Ron Madden (08-07-2020)


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