Underrated club: Vada Pinson, born #OTD, who led NL w 131 runs & 47 2B in his 1st full #MLB season as 20-yr-old with
@Reds in 1959 & also collected 200+ hits for 1st of 4 times in career. In #Reds Hall of Fame. Check out his bio
@SABRbioproject
@sabr
bio https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/vada-pinson/
Last edited by Ron Madden; 08-11-2020 at 03:12 PM.
Always Red (08-12-2020),Edd Roush (08-12-2020),RED VAN HOT (08-11-2020)
Tale of two careers
Code:VADA PINSON AGE < 27 YEAR TEAM AGE G AB R H 2B 3B HR HR% RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBA SLG OPS 1958 Reds 19 27 96 20 26 7 0 1 1.04 8 11 18 2 1 .271 .352 .375 .727 1959 Reds 20 154 648 131 205 47 9 20 3.09 84 55 98 21 6 .316 .371 .509 .880 1960 Reds 21 154 652 107 187 37 12 20 3.07 61 47 96 32 12 .287 .339 .472 .811 1961 Reds 22 154 607 101 208 34 8 16 2.64 87 39 63 23 10 .343 .379 .504 .883 1962 Reds 23 155 619 107 181 31 7 23 3.72 100 45 68 26 8 .292 .341 .477 .817 1963 Reds 24 162 652 96 204 37 14 22 3.37 106 36 80 27 8 .313 .347 .514 .861 1964 Reds 25 156 625 99 166 23 11 23 3.68 84 42 99 8 2 .266 .316 .448 .764 1965 Reds 26 159 669 97 204 34 10 22 3.29 94 43 81 21 8 .305 .352 .484 .836 TOTALS 1121 4568 758 1381 250 71 147 3.22 624 318 603 160 55 .302 .349 .485 .834 LG AVERAGE 4568 605 1227 196 39 126 2.77 565 416 679 63 34 .269 .331 .418 .749 POS AVERAGE 4568 702 1270 211 50 136 2.97 556 399 671 108 47 .278 .338 .442 .779 AGE >= 27 YEAR TEAM AGE G AB R H 2B 3B HR HR% RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBA SLG OPS 1966 Reds 27 156 618 70 178 35 6 16 2.59 76 33 83 18 10 .288 .326 .442 .768 1967 Reds 28 158 650 90 187 28 13 18 2.77 66 26 86 26 8 .288 .318 .454 .771 1968 Reds 29 130 499 60 135 29 6 5 1.00 48 32 59 17 11 .271 .311 .383 .694 1969 Cardinals 30 132 495 58 126 22 6 10 2.02 70 35 63 4 4 .255 .303 .384 .686 1970 Indians 31 148 574 74 164 28 6 24 4.18 82 28 69 7 6 .286 .319 .481 .800 1971 Indians 32 146 566 60 149 23 4 11 1.94 35 21 58 25 6 .263 .295 .376 .672 1972 Angels 33 136 484 56 133 24 2 7 1.45 49 30 54 17 6 .275 .321 .376 .697 1973 Angels 34 124 466 56 121 14 6 8 1.72 57 20 55 5 5 .260 .286 .367 .653 1974 Royals 35 115 406 46 112 18 2 6 1.48 41 21 45 21 5 .276 .312 .374 .686 1975 Royals 36 103 319 38 71 14 5 4 1.25 22 10 21 5 6 .223 .248 .335 .583 TOTALS 1348 5077 608 1376 235 56 109 2.15 546 256 593 145 67 .271 .307 .404 .711 LG AVERAGE 5077 648 1329 211 36 131 2.57 604 479 761 76 46 .262 .327 .410 .738 POS AVERAGE 5077 721 1376 224 43 158 3.10 636 485 798 112 59 .271 .337 .442 .778
Always Red (08-12-2020),Edd Roush (08-12-2020),M2 (08-11-2020),marcshoe (08-11-2020),Ron Madden (08-11-2020)
Maybe the most underrated Red ever. And by at least one account a great person.
I sat beside a elderly lady at a game in riverfront once. She was in a wheelchair. She told me Vada used to wheel her to her seat before every game at Crosley field. Maybe someone on here knew her. Her name was Marge. No it wasn't Schott.
This lady was a pleasure to talk to and knew the history of the Reds very well.
I would say she is probably no longer with us.
Always Red (08-12-2020),bagz (08-12-2020),cumberlandreds (08-12-2020),Edd Roush (08-12-2020),marcshoe (08-11-2020),mth123 (08-11-2020),RED VAN HOT (08-12-2020),redsmetz (08-12-2020),Ron Madden (08-11-2020),UKFlounder (08-12-2020)
Pinson had a very Don Mattingly career. Seemed like a sure-fire HOFer during his first seven seasons and then his game took a turn. If he'd have had prime seasons during ages 27-30, we'd speak his name in hushed tones of reverence.Originally Posted by westofyou
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Other side of the coin
Code:AGE <= 26 YEAR TEAM AGE G AB R H 2B 3B HR HR% RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBA SLG OPS 1955 Pirates 20 124 474 48 121 23 11 5 1.05 47 18 60 2 5 .255 .284 .382 .666 1956 Pirates 21 147 543 66 169 30 7 7 1.29 60 13 58 6 6 .311 .330 .431 .761 1957 Pirates 22 111 451 42 114 17 7 4 0.89 30 23 45 0 4 .253 .288 .348 .637 1958 Pirates 23 140 519 69 150 24 10 6 1.16 50 31 41 8 2 .289 .327 .408 .736 1959 Pirates 24 105 432 60 128 17 7 4 0.93 50 15 51 2 3 .296 .322 .396 .718 1960 Pirates 25 144 570 89 179 22 6 16 2.81 94 39 72 4 5 .314 .357 .458 .815 1961 Pirates 26 146 572 100 201 30 10 23 4.02 89 35 59 4 1 .351 .390 .559 .949 TOTALS 917 3561 474 1062 163 58 65 1.83 420 174 386 26 26 .298 .331 .431 .763 LG AVERAGE 3561 464 966 156 37 83 2.34 435 347 470 38 26 .271 .337 .416 .752 POS AVERAGE 3561 489 1016 166 41 98 2.75 491 298 458 29 23 .285 .341 .450 .791 AGE > 26 YEAR TEAM AGE G AB R H 2B 3B HR HR% RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBA SLG OPS 1962 Pirates 27 144 538 95 168 28 9 10 1.86 74 35 73 6 4 .312 .352 .454 .805 1963 Pirates 28 152 600 77 192 23 8 17 2.83 76 31 64 12 2 .320 .356 .470 .826 1964 Pirates 29 155 622 95 211 40 7 12 1.93 87 51 87 5 2 .339 .388 .484 .872 1965 Pirates 30 152 589 91 194 21 14 10 1.70 65 43 78 8 0 .329 .378 .463 .842 1966 Pirates 31 154 638 105 202 31 11 29 4.55 119 46 109 7 5 .317 .360 .536 .896 1967 Pirates 32 147 585 103 209 26 10 23 3.93 110 41 103 9 1 .357 .400 .554 .954 1968 Pirates 33 132 502 74 146 18 12 18 3.59 57 51 77 2 3 .291 .355 .482 .838 1969 Pirates 34 138 507 87 175 20 12 19 3.75 91 56 73 4 1 .345 .411 .544 .955 1970 Pirates 35 108 412 65 145 22 10 14 3.40 60 38 66 3 0 .352 .407 .556 .963 1971 Pirates 36 132 522 82 178 29 8 13 2.49 86 26 65 1 2 .341 .370 .502 .871 1972 Pirates 37 102 378 68 118 19 7 10 2.65 60 29 49 0 0 .312 .356 .479 .835 TOTALS 1516 5893 942 1938 277 108 175 2.97 885 447 844 57 20 .329 .376 .502 .877 LG AVERAGE 5893 713 1553 236 50 118 2.00 662 533 898 80 58 .264 .326 .391 .718 POS AVERAGE 5893 804 1621 259 58 152 2.58 749 581 956 92 54 .275 .341 .430 .772
When he got his 3000th I was shocked he was forty, because he seemed at the top of his game (I was young and not paying enough attention, although he'd been my favorite since the '71 series). Thirty years later and he'd be accused of PED use and not elected to the Hall.
It is on the whole probable that we continually dream, but that consciousness makes such a noise that we do not hear it. Carl Jung.
What's very strange to me is that on baseball-reference.com, Most Similar by Ages, has Clemente-Pinson from ages 34-36. That would be 1969-1971 for Clemente and 1973-1975 for Pinson. I don't get it.
Something else occurred to me. We talk a lot about the Frank Robinson trade. But think about the Cardinals back then. Coming off back to back World Series years. They gave us Bobby Tolan(who absolutely was a better player than Pinson for the next few years) and Wayne Granger, the premiere national league closer for the next 2 seasons. For a somewhat washed up Pinson. And then 3 years later hand the Phillies Steve Carlton for Rick Wise!!! I guess that's why it took them 14 more years before they ever made the World Series again.
Last edited by foster15; 08-12-2020 at 02:51 AM.
Babip seems to make the difference. Pinsons goes south while Clemente goes on a historical streak.
The so-called "Dead ball era" in the late 60's. It probably kept Vada out of the HOF. Unfortunately for him this occurred during many of his prime years.
So Clemente got to hit a livelier ball? Vada Pinson's skills diminished, it happens. And back then it happened more around the age of 30. I would also point out that there's probably a correlation between Pinson's numbers going down and his protector in the batting order taking his bat to Baltimore.
Glad to see some love for Vada; certainly an under rated Red and one of my favorites!
sorry we're boring
Ron Madden (08-12-2020)
Pinson suffered from several leg injuries that were instrumental in the diminishment of his skills. Power slipped and that gazelle like grace and speed disappeared. Still even his later numbers are those of a pretty fair player. 2700 hits, 250 homers, 450 2bs and 300 steals....only Vada and Willie Mays can claim that.
99% of all numbers only tell 33% of the story so when looking at the numbers remember that numbers is plural...
Edd Roush (08-12-2020),RED VAN HOT (08-12-2020),Ron Madden (08-12-2020)
Rickey says "Hi" https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...enderi01.shtml
Barry Bonds says "Hi" also. https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ondsba01.shtml
Last edited by foster15; 08-12-2020 at 11:40 AM.
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