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Thread: What to do w Joey Votto

  1. #46
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Mred View Post
    Then what does he do to help the reds win?
    I was asking you how you define "terrible" exactly. You said he was a terrible player.


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  3. #47
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Mred View Post
    Nice reply, I guess you're gonna shift to insults now
    What a great response lol
    Crazy Reds Fan

  4. #48
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Mred View Post
    Nice reply, I guess you're gonna shift to insults now
    Nah, but how about you answering some of the questions people have posed?

  5. #49
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Replace Votto scenarios that are realistic. Moose to first Galvis to 2b. Garcia to SS.

    Suarez to 1b. Moose to 3b. Rest as above.

    Or maybe just play Votto at 1b and realize that he’s no longer Votto or old and give him a less prominent role in the lineup.

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  7. #50
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by HammerTime View Post
    Does that even matter that much in todays game?
    It matters for my 9 year olds, because when one of them who is a bad baserunner gets on third we really do get clogged up.

    But I was joking.

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  9. #51
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post

    Or maybe just play Votto at 1b and realize that he’s no longer Votto or old and give him a less prominent role in the lineup.
    I don't disagree that some sort of discussion to how to handle Votto in his decline years is necessary.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  10. #52
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Mred View Post
    He's not a Hall of famer, so who cares? He deff is a Reds HOFer, right next to Dunner.
    If he retired today, he'd be a member of the ultra exclusive .300/.400/.500 club.

    He's one of the greatest OBP guys in baseball history.

    He's a Hall of Famer.

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  12. #53
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    I don't disagree that some sort of discussion to how to handle Votto in his decline years is necessary.
    Agreed. Calling him a terrible player that could be replaced by literally anyone is not that discussion, though.

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  14. #54
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Votto was a 1.9 WAR player last year. He's overpaid for what he currently does but acting like he should be cut is beyond silly and shouldn't even be part of the discussion.

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  16. #55
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    The time to ask this question was after the 2016 season when he was performing like an MVP and would have returned a couple of top prospects in addition to unloading his money. The team was tanking anyway. Most of Redszone did not agree.
    No team was going to take on his contract AND give up top prospects.

    The Reds are now paying him money he's already earned. Comes with the territory when you sign guys to long-term contracts.
    Last edited by Coopdaddy67; 08-20-2020 at 01:56 PM.

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  18. #56
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Mred View Post
    This is hilarious - so amazing to hear the 2 camps.

    I want votto off the team, cause they will be better without him, and for him to get his money and that's that.

    No hate. But, they are worse with him on the field, and its going to continue getting worse.

    How about this? I want the reds to be competitive, something they havent been in 6 years, and rarely over 25 years.

    Playing a terrible player because of the money owed will only hurt the team. no one cares about vottos feelings lol
    It's not about Votto's feelings, it's about finances. If you enjoyed Joey Votto as an MVP-caliber player, then you have to accept this part.

    The going rate for a star was was it was. Either you're going to have to pony up on the front end (for instance $35 million) or spread it out (10-12 years).

    This isn't about a clear-sighted and honest assessment of player talent; what you're expressing is a desire to disregard the financial realities of the game. (This is all assuming nearly no major league organization would eat the remainder of Votto's contract.)

    Nobody wants to watch Votto struggle. Pretending we can just wish it away doesn't solve anything

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  20. #57
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    As they say, "father time is undefeated". Votto is a Hall of Famer if he retires today. He is/was waaaaaaaay better than Harold Baines.

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  22. #58
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix2 View Post
    As they say, "father time is undefeated". Votto is a Hall of Famer if he retires today. He is/was waaaaaaaay better than Harold Baines.
    So were hundreds of other players.

    Let's start with Vada Pinson.

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  24. #59
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Personally, I would not DFA Votto as I don't think moving Moose/Saurez to 1B really solves much as the hole left at 2b/3b would be pretty big IMO. And Davidson I am not sure would be a much better 1B than Votto. But the lessons I'd learn are:

    1. Votto doesn't deserve to hit in the middle of the batting order based upon reputation. So let's not manage around Joey's ego and his place in Red's history. If we feel we have better hitters at the 1-5 spot...then Joey needs to move down in order or just put him leadoff and see if his OBP holds up enough to be reasonable.
    2. Please...don't ever do another long term deal. The Larkin, Griffey and now Votto deals kill payroll in the end and inhibit us to pay guys that can actually be star power dudes. We are going to lose 1-2 starting players next year because we can't pay them due to Joey's nice 25M contract sitting here playing bad defense at 1b and hitting for crap average with zilch power numbers. That ain't close to worth 25M and we get to enjoy this for 3 more years.

    We need a front office that thinks like the Oakland As and keeps guys for value contracts and doesnt' do this nonsense of paying for "star" power...whatever that means to begin with.

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  26. #60
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    Re: What to do w Joey Votto

    Quote Originally Posted by UK Reds Fan View Post
    Personally, I would not DFA Votto as I don't think moving Moose/Saurez to 1B really solves much as the hole left at 2b/3b would be pretty big IMO. And Davidson I am not sure would be a much better 1B than Votto. But the lessons I'd learn are:

    1. Votto doesn't deserve to hit in the middle of the batting order based upon reputation. So let's not manage around Joey's ego and his place in Red's history. If we feel we have better hitters at the 1-5 spot...then Joey needs to move down in order or just put him leadoff and see if his OBP holds up enough to be reasonable.
    2. Please...don't ever do another long term deal. The Larkin, Griffey and now Votto deals kill payroll in the end and inhibit us to pay guys that can actually be star power dudes. We are going to lose 1-2 starting players next year because we can't pay them due to Joey's nice 25M contract sitting here playing bad defense at 1b and hitting for crap average with zilch power numbers. That ain't close to worth 25M and we get to enjoy this for 3 more years.

    We need a front office that thinks like the Oakland As and keeps guys for value contracts and doesnt' do this nonsense of paying for "star" power...whatever that means to begin with.
    Votto's OBP (.370) is 50 points higher than everybody not named Winker (.493) and Castellanos (.352). That's why he's batting 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

    The Oakland A's haven't won a World Series or AL pennant in 30 years. Hopefully the Reds don't try to emulate them.

    Fact is, the Reds have plenty of money to compete, even with Votto's contract on the books. He's made the organization a ton of money throughout his career and his contract is already paid for. If they wanted to base his salary on production value, he'd have several years where he would be worth upwards of 40 and even 50+ million. Teams don't want to do that though, they want to spread it out.

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