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Thread: Roster and Lineup for 2021

  1. #1
    TyrannoSuarez Wrecks WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Roster and Lineup for 2021

    Anyone want to take a stab at what those might look like next year?

    I'm doing this with the assumption that Castellanos opts-in for 2021 (and will opt out at the end of 2021), Desclafani signs an extension, while Bauer and Galvis sign elsewhere after hitting the FA market.

    I'm also assuming that the DH becomes permanent for the NL in 2021.

    Anyway, this is how I see the roster:

    Pitching:
    Major league roster:
    SP Gray
    SP Castillo
    SP Desclafani
    SP Mahle
    SP Miley
    SP/RP Antone
    RP Lorenzen
    RP Iglesias
    RP Garrett
    RP Sims
    RP Bradley
    ???
    ???

    In the wings:
    SP Lodolo
    SP/RP Santillan
    RP Kuhnel

    Infield:
    1b Moustakas*
    2b ???
    SS Garcia**
    3b Suarez
    IF Farmer

    Outfield:
    LF Winker
    CF Shogo
    RF Castellanos
    OF Senzel
    OF Goodwin

    In the wings:
    OF Aquino

    Other:
    DH Votto*

    *I figure Moustakas makes the most sense to take over at 1b, with Votto becoming the full time DH. That leaves a hole at 2b though. Senzel might fit there, but do we want his fragile body playing the infield?
    **The middle infield looks a mess for 2021. Garcia should really be at AAA for the entire season. But that means over-paying for Galvis and I don't see the Reds doing that. Maybe they could woo Villar, but are the Reds willing to spend on outside free agents? I also don't want to lock Farmer in at any one position, as he seems well suited to playing all over.

    Thoughts?
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    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Roster and Lineup for 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    Anyone want to take a stab at what those might look like next year?

    I'm doing this with the assumption that Castellanos opts-in for 2021 (and will opt out at the end of 2021), Desclafani signs an extension, while Bauer and Galvis sign elsewhere after hitting the FA market.

    I'm also assuming that the DH becomes permanent for the NL in 2021.

    Anyway, this is how I see the roster:

    Pitching:
    Major league roster:
    SP Gray
    SP Castillo
    SP Desclafani
    SP Mahle
    SP Miley
    SP/RP Antone
    RP Lorenzen
    RP Iglesias
    RP Garrett
    RP Sims
    RP Bradley
    ???
    ???

    In the wings:
    SP Lodolo
    SP/RP Santillan
    RP Kuhnel

    Infield:
    1b Moustakas*
    2b ???
    SS Garcia**
    3b Suarez
    IF Farmer

    Outfield:
    LF Winker
    CF Shogo
    RF Castellanos
    OF Senzel
    OF Goodwin

    In the wings:
    OF Aquino

    Other:
    DH Votto*

    *I figure Moustakas makes the most sense to take over at 1b, with Votto becoming the full time DH. That leaves a hole at 2b though. Senzel might fit there, but do we want his fragile body playing the infield?
    **The middle infield looks a mess for 2021. Garcia should really be at AAA for the entire season. But that means over-paying for Galvis and I don't see the Reds doing that. Maybe they could woo Villar, but are the Reds willing to spend on outside free agents? I also don't want to lock Farmer in at any one position, as he seems well suited to playing all over.

    Thoughts?
    "If you don't have a catcher, you're gonna have a lotta passed balls." -- Casey Stengel
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    Re: Roster and Lineup for 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    Anyone want to take a stab at what those might look like next year?

    I'm doing this with the assumption that Castellanos opts-in for 2021 (and will opt out at the end of 2021), Desclafani signs an extension, while Bauer and Galvis sign elsewhere after hitting the FA market.

    I'm also assuming that the DH becomes permanent for the NL in 2021.

    Anyway, this is how I see the roster:

    Pitching:
    Major league roster:
    SP Gray
    SP Castillo
    SP Desclafani
    SP Mahle
    SP Miley
    SP/RP Antone
    RP Lorenzen
    RP Iglesias
    RP Garrett
    RP Sims
    RP Bradley
    ???
    ???

    In the wings:
    SP Lodolo
    SP/RP Santillan
    RP Kuhnel

    Infield:
    1b Moustakas*
    2b ???
    SS Garcia**
    3b Suarez
    IF Farmer

    Outfield:
    LF Winker
    CF Shogo
    RF Castellanos
    OF Senzel
    OF Goodwin

    In the wings:
    OF Aquino

    Other:
    DH Votto*

    *I figure Moustakas makes the most sense to take over at 1b, with Votto becoming the full time DH. That leaves a hole at 2b though. Senzel might fit there, but do we want his fragile body playing the infield?
    **The middle infield looks a mess for 2021. Garcia should really be at AAA for the entire season. But that means over-paying for Galvis and I don't see the Reds doing that. Maybe they could woo Villar, but are the Reds willing to spend on outside free agents? I also don't want to lock Farmer in at any one position, as he seems well suited to playing all over.

    Thoughts?
    Without going into all the details, you point up one significant issue.

    Votto, Winker and Castellanos are not good defenders. You choose to DH Votto, but that means Winker and Castellanos in the same OF most days.

    There’s no hiding from the defensive issue, not sure what’s the best decision. Maybe you just live with it. Another Joe Morgan type trade, to move a hitter for an all around player would be ideal.

    Also - in the wings is Jonathan India more than Aquino. India is defensively versatile, has a great pedigree. He could be a very valuable “10th man” next season if he is ready. He could also play second base if it’s open.
    Last edited by Kc61; 09-11-2020 at 01:43 PM.

  6. #4
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Roster and Lineup for 2021

    I would re-sign Bauer and then trade the rest of this roster to the Angels for Mike Trout, then let Bauer and Trout go out and beat up on all the other teams next year with Bauer pitching every inning and Trout batting 1-9.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  7. #5
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Roster and Lineup for 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    Anyone want to take a stab at what those might look like next year?

    I'm doing this with the assumption that Castellanos opts-in for 2021 (and will opt out at the end of 2021), Desclafani signs an extension, while Bauer and Galvis sign elsewhere after hitting the FA market.

    I'm also assuming that the DH becomes permanent for the NL in 2021.

    Anyway, this is how I see the roster:

    Pitching:
    Major league roster:
    SP Gray
    SP Castillo
    SP Desclafani
    SP Mahle
    SP Miley
    SP/RP Antone
    RP Lorenzen
    RP Iglesias
    RP Garrett
    RP Sims
    RP Bradley
    ???
    ???

    In the wings:
    SP Lodolo
    SP/RP Santillan
    RP Kuhnel

    Infield:
    1b Moustakas*
    2b ???
    SS Garcia**
    3b Suarez
    IF Farmer

    Outfield:
    LF Winker
    CF Shogo
    RF Castellanos
    OF Senzel
    OF Goodwin

    In the wings:
    OF Aquino

    Other:
    DH Votto*

    *I figure Moustakas makes the most sense to take over at 1b, with Votto becoming the full time DH. That leaves a hole at 2b though. Senzel might fit there, but do we want his fragile body playing the infield?
    **The middle infield looks a mess for 2021. Garcia should really be at AAA for the entire season. But that means over-paying for Galvis and I don't see the Reds doing that. Maybe they could woo Villar, but are the Reds willing to spend on outside free agents? I also don't want to lock Farmer in at any one position, as he seems well suited to playing all over.

    Thoughts?
    If this is the direction, the obvious move is to make Senzel the 2B. I like Senzel in the OF, but I think moving him to second and Moose to 1B with Votto at DH is the single biggest upgrade they can make to the defense. While it's true that Winker and Castellanos are below average (or worse) outfielders, IMO the defense at 1B and 2B this year has been by far the team's biggest defensive problem. The only question I'd have is whther Moose should play 1B or whether he should move to 3B with Suarez at 1B. I think Moose is probably a better defender at 3B than Suarez.

    You didn't mention the Catchers but I'd move Barnhart and hand it to Stephenson and Casali. I'd do my best to keep Bauer using the Galvis and Barnhart money to fund his raise and I'd let Disco walk. I might be tempted to move Miley into the pen as the second lefty with Antone and Mahle holding down the back end behind the big three. I'd probably bring in a vet as a potential sixth starter, emergency option.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Roster and Lineup for 2021

    I would just like to add without beating the fire David Bell dead horse but they absolutely have to fire the hitting coach.

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    Re: Roster and Lineup for 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    If this is the direction, the obvious move is to make Senzel the 2B. I like Senzel in the OF, but I think moving him to second and Moose to 1B with Votto at DH is the single biggest upgrade they can make to the defense. While it's true that Winker and Castellanos are below average (or worse) outfielders, IMO the defense at 1B and 2B this year has been by far the team's biggest defensive problem. The only question I'd have is whther Moose should play 1B or whether he should move to 3B with Suarez at 1B. I think Moose is probably a better defender at 3B than Suarez.

    .
    Not sure why Senzel to second base is the obvious move.

    You’re just switching the position of need from second base to center field. Unless you like Goodwin and think Goodwin and Senzel together is a good duo. Then I can see it, that would be a defensive upgrade.

    The underlying issue though is that Votto, Winker and Castellanos present a defensive problem somewhere. You can hide one subpar defender, but it’s harder with two. Only one of them can DH. Reds probably just live with that, but some GMs would make a trade.
    Last edited by Kc61; 09-11-2020 at 06:17 PM.

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    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Roster and Lineup for 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Not sure why Senzel to second base is the obvious move.

    You’re just switching the position of need from second base to center field. Unless you like Goodwin and think Goodwin and Senzel together is a good duo. Then I can see it, that would be a defensive upgrade.

    The underlying issue though is that Votto, Winker and Castellanos present a defensive problem somewhere. You can hide one subpar defender, but it’s harder with two. Only one of them can DH. Reds probably just live with that, but some GMs would make a trade.
    They Have Shogo and Goodwin to play CF. Nobody to play 2B. Moving Votto and Moose of the right side of the IF is probably the first thing that needs done to improve the defense. I realize the OF will be weaker, but I think the IF is way more important and has caused much more damage this year.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Roster and Lineup for 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    They Have Shogo and Goodwin to play CF. Nobody to play 2B. Moving Votto and Moose of the right side of the IF is probably the first thing that needs done to improve the defense. I realize the OF will be weaker, but I think the IF is way more important and has caused much more damage this year.
    Winker, Shogo and Cast in the outfield is the opposition’s BABIP dream come true. Reds can settle for it, but the balls will be dropping due to lack of range. Goodwin might work but he’s a better fit at fourth outfielder on a good team.

    I’m afraid this plan is moving around the deck chairs on the Titanic. Besides, they probably aren’t even thinking about moving Senzel to the infield.
    Last edited by Kc61; 09-11-2020 at 07:02 PM.

  12. #10
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Roster and Lineup for 2021

    The premise of the thread is that these guys would all be back and how do you line them up. There is no way to line them up without having a couple of weak defenders. I think 2B and 1B have caused a lot more damage than the OF. With Senzel, Garcia and Shogo you would have speedy, athletic players up the middle. Moose would upgrade 3B defensively. Getting Votto off of 1B makes the entire IF better. It makes no sense to play Senzel in CF with Shogo and Goodwin both sitting and Alex Blandino or whoever manning 2B.

    This alignment would improve all four IF spots defensively. CF would be a wash. RF is the same guy. Only LF would be worse and it's the least important spot on the field.
    Last edited by mth123; 09-11-2020 at 07:05 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Roster and Lineup for 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    The premise of the thread is that these guys would all be back and how do you line them up. There is no way to line them up without having a couple of weak defenders. I think 2B and 1B have caused a lot more damage than the OF. With Senzel, Garcia and Shogo you would have speedy, athletic players up the middle. Moose would upgrade 3B defensively. Getting Votto off of 1B makes the entire IF better. It makes no sense to play Senzel in CF with Shogo and Goodwin both sitting and Alex Blandino or whoever manning 2B.

    This alignment would improve all four IF spots defensively. CF would be a wash. RF is the same guy. Only LF would be worse and it's the least important spot on the field.
    Different words, same problem. Lousy defensive Of, not enough coverage, two corner guys who should not be in same OF defense.

    Absent a major trade, solution begins by reducing Votto’s playing time. He’s 37. Let him sit thirty games and DH 30,

    Add a second baseman from outside or, possibly, Jonathan India can handle it, he’s a third baseman by trade. Leave Senzel in CF where he is still the best all around option, keep Goodwin as fourth OF/backup.

    Winker remains the primary DH use him sparingly in OF, but probably some games will be necessary as emergencies.

    That’s how I’d be thinking about it. Or a major trade changing some of the players.
    Last edited by Kc61; 09-11-2020 at 07:42 PM.

  14. #12
    Member Mitri's Avatar
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    Re: Roster and Lineup for 2021

    I still like Senzel in CF. He looked good there. And when he gets bit by the injury bug, they have two good backups there for support. The OF is likely set if Castellanos opt in Wink Cast Senzel Goodwin and Shogo.

    I love Votto to primary DH. The rest of the team is up to a creative GM. Geno to 1B and Moose back to 3B? A lot depends on who the like better in that regard. Trade Geno? That would be the bold move. They’ll need a bold move at SP and a couple in the pen as well.


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