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Thread: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

  1. #841
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    We can debate cause and effect, but I'm not wrong about the chart. That bottom right corner pack (other than HI) would all be right in the same place in my chart. And the midwest and mountain states at top left would also be similarly placed.


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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    We can debate cause and effect, but I'm not wrong about the chart. That bottom right corner pack (other than HI) would all be right in the same place in my chart. And the midwest states at top left would also be similarly placed.
    You are correct about the placement of the state on the chart. But you are incorrect that the chart isn’t telling us a lot. And my post explained why.

    The chart tells us about the relationship between mask wearing and seeing symptoms. I think that’s important, as does Carnigie Melon and the Washington Post.
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Ok, but what would my chart tell us, then, if it looked very similar?

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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Ok, but what would my chart tell us, then, if it looked very similar?
    Two charts measuring different data can look the same and yet provide with us completely different information. It happens all the time.

    Edit: You do bring up a good point, and what it reveals to me is that places were hit hard by Covid, are those places that are now wearing masks at a high rate. That is interesting.
    Last edited by 757690; 10-24-2020 at 03:26 AM.
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    >% who know someone with Covid symptoms
    >% wearing masks in public most or all the time

    I'm not doubting your sourcing, I'd just add that this is a stupid chart and shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone.

    Covid is serious on both ends. People are dying and people are losing their livelihoods. Charts about who knows someone who might have covid symptoms is bad info that just shouldn't be shared. It serves no purpose other than to push a narrative.
    This chart is basically: Eastern Corridor and Northeast = Good guys in densely populated states vs. Southern and Western = Bad guys in much less densely populated states.

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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    We should follow the facts that confirm my bias.
    FTFY.

    **I don’t mean to single you out, but I think the above doctored quote represents most science deniers. Not just COVID, but anything scientists are ringing alarms on and people decide to ignore. I think COVID and climate change are very similar in this regard. People don’t like to listen to scientists/experts when it is personally inconvenient.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    FTFY.

    **I don’t mean to single you out, but I think the above doctored quote represents most science deniers. Not just COVID, but anything scientists are ringing alarms on and people decide to ignore. I think COVID and climate change are very similar in this regard. People don’t like to listen to scientists/experts when it is personally inconvenient.
    Climate change is settled consensus based on decades of reliable evidence. Comparing that to research that is 7-8 months old, no matter how good the research is, is part of the problem.

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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    This chart is basically: Eastern Corridor and Northeast = Good guys in densely populated states vs. Southern and Western = Bad guys in much less densely populated states.
    The chart reveals who is wearing masks and who is showing symptoms. Those that aren’t wearing masks are right now showing more symptoms. It’s quite straightforward.

    The fact that one could also see other patterns is irrelevant to this discussion.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The chart reveals who is wearing masks and who is showing symptoms. Those that aren’t wearing masks are right now showing more symptoms. It’s quite straightforward.

    The fact that one could also see other patterns is irrelevant to this discussion.
    That chart has nothing to do with science though. Those symptoms could have nothing to do with Coronavirus, not actually exist, be an individual's negative view of a mask not being worn impacting their response, etc.

    As others have said, Coronavirus symptoms aren't unique either.

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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67 View Post
    That chart has nothing to do with science though. Those symptoms could have nothing to do with Coronavirus, not actually exist, be an individual's negative view of a mask not being worn impacting their response, etc.

    As others have said, Coronavirus symptoms aren't unique either.
    It does have plenty to do with science, but that is a semantic rabbit hole there is no need to go down. Science is usually a bit messy and not as precise and we may wish.

    However, those are all good points. But all of those issues would be evident in every state, and likely distributed within each state equally. The fact that there is wide range of symptoms being seen between the states, that reveal a rather obvious curve, backs up the integrity of the chart. Had there been nothing to it, the chart would look random.

    I really don’t have an issue with the notion that the more Covid symptoms are being seen, the more Covid spread there is in a given state. It seems rather obvious and non-controversial.
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    No, it definitely doesn't. Someone's opinion/perception isn't based in science, which is what that chart presents.

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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67 View Post
    No, it definitely doesn't. Someone's opinion/perception isn't based in science, which is what that chart presents.
    There are plenty of highly reputable scientific studies that are based on people’s perceptions and opinions. I mean, all polling, when done correctly, is a form of science. But I really don’t want to go down this rabbit hole.

    The issue is the credibility of a Carnegie Melon study. It seems some people want to question it.
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  18. #853
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Those types of studies/polls are entirely different. Political polling isn't based on science, it's based on personal opinion.

    Just because polls are developed and conducted using science/math doesn't mean they're scientifically-based.

  19. #854
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67 View Post
    Those types of studies/polls are entirely different. Political polling isn't based on science, it's based on personal opinion.

    Just because polls are developed and conducted using science/math doesn't mean they're scientifically-based.
    There’s a reason why the courses I took in college were called “Politcial Sceince.”

    Again, there are plenty if scientific studies likes this one that use information from interviews as data. It’s done all the time.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67 View Post
    That chart has nothing to do with science though. Those symptoms could have nothing to do with Coronavirus, not actually exist, be an individual's negative view of a mask not being worn impacting their response, etc.

    As others have said, Coronavirus symptoms aren't unique either.
    I think the point is, places where mask use is more common is seeing a decrease in respiratory symptoms in general, whether it's Covid, the Flu, a cold or whatever. The point is the masks seem to help cut down on transmission of respiratory illness in general.

    I question how "scietiific" it is though. They just asked people if they knew anyone, which would supply some pretty subjective answers and how do they know where mask use is more common or not?

    I think the intent of the study makes sense, but I have to wonder how legit the results are. Seems pretty easy to interpret any way you want it to, like most of these types of studies seem to be. Tell me what you want to find and I'm pretty sure I could dig up a "scientist" who will find it. That's why I take it all with a grain of salt from both sides of this debate.

    I'm still at square one. We have a disease that kills people, people need to function and earn a living, covering your mouth when you cough and not breathing directly on other people are long accepted ways to stop transmission of germs and viruses. From those things, my stance is that things should be open, but masks and distancing seem a good precaution that everyone should follow. Pretending we know any more than that is just that, pretending. The mainstream medical people say wear masks, so I think we should wear them.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-24-2020 at 06:20 PM.
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