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Thread: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

  1. #946
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysawarrior View Post
    At best that was an extremely poorly written article... You have a county judge (?) declaring hospital beds full, but someone on the counties emergency management team saying that was not the case. So I don't think that article is anywhere near definitive. I also don't believe most people understand how hospitals actually work and how they are constantly working to maintain and manage their bed situation. This is something they do at all times not just because of covid.
    From the article:

    On Sunday morning, Texas Governor Greg Abbott announced the state would be taking steps to increase bed space in El Paso, converting the downtown El Paso Convention Center into an auxiliary hospital with up to 100 beds, and sending mobile medical units to El Paso hospitals with 100 beds each.
    This is not normal.
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  3. #947
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    A small group of 300+ million is gonna be a big number, but it's a lot easier to lock those people down than it is the rest of us. It also doesn't kill the livelihoods of nearly as many Americans as blanket lockdowns do.
    You just tried to yadda yadda tens of millions of people. Any increment of 10 million is not a small group of people. And how you extricate numbers that large from the rest of American society is conjectural at best. No one knows how to do that. There is no plan we could pick up and follow. The reality is we can't do it on any sort of near-term timeline and those of us who don't fall into any of the higher risk categories need to recognize the danger for those who do.

    Also, 230,000 (the most recent milestone we passed for the COVID death total) is not a small number. It's almost a certainty that we're going to surpass 1 in every 1,000 Americans dead from this disease. If the current surge rages through the winter it is entirely possible that in one 12-month span we could equal the entire number of American war deaths during four years of World War II. And there's memorials to those people all over this country because it was such a tragic loss of life. That's where we're headed with our current sorry state of affairs. Throw it wide open and those numbers will look like a picnic. Personally, it doesn't sit right with me that extra increments of 100,000 stand to die because I've gotta have table service or because masks deprive others of getting to see my jawline.
    Last edited by M2; 10-26-2020 at 11:49 AM.
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  5. #948
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    From the article:



    This is not normal.
    It's not normal if it's an appropriate reaction. Ohio spent who knows how many millions to convert the convention center in Cincinnati into an overflow hospital and never used the first bed. We shall see I guess, I don't know anything about El Paso and won't pretend to.
    I will say as bad as Ohio looks at the moment my wife who is an RN in a hospital downtown is still being sent home quite regularly because the need just simply isn't there.

  6. #949
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Thanks for the link, I was not aware of this story. The 100% capacity phrase for hospitals can be extremely misleading, but if a hospital is out of room to create new ICU beds within its walls then it isn't. There seems to be disagreement here, but if they're expanding elsewhere in the city that is a good indicator. 15% of the ICU patients for Covid in the entire state is also not a good thing for El Paso.

  7. #950
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    You just tried to yadda yadda tens of millions of people. Any increment of 10 million is not a small group of people. And how you extricate numbers that large from the rest of American society is conjectural at best. No one knows how to do that. There is no plan we could pick up and follow. The reality is we can't do it on any sort of near-term timeline and those of us who don't fall into any of the higher risk categories need to recognize the danger for those who do.

    Also, 230,000 (the most recent milestone we passed for the COVID death total) is not a small number. It's almost a certainty that we're going to surpass 1 in every 1,000 Americans dead from this disease. If the current surge rages through the winter it is entirely possible that in one 12-month span we could equal the entire number of American war deaths during four years of World War II. And there's memorials to those people all over this country because it was such a tragic loss of life. That's where we're headed with our current sorry state of affairs. Throw it wide open and those numbers will look like a picnic. Personally, it doesn't sit right with me that extra increments of 100,000 stand to die because I've gotta have table service or because masks deprive others of getting to see my jawline.
    I didn't yadda yadda them, I said to lock them down instead. Their lives aren't less important than mine, they're just at a higher risk of dying from this virus than I am.

    I'd rather we protect those who are at an increased risk of dying from the virus and allow the lower risk groups to have a choice.

  8. #951
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    I didn't yadda yadda them, I said to lock them down instead. Their lives aren't less important than mine, they're just at a higher risk of dying from this virus than I am.

    I'd rather we protect those who are at an increased risk of dying from the virus and allow the lower risk groups to have a choice.
    It kind of sounds like my life actually is less important than yours, though. Your "choices" mean that I get to stay locked up for longer than need be. Because my life doesn't matter as much as your convenience.

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  10. #952
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    How long do I get to go without seeing my friends or family? How long until it's safe for me to date again? I'd like to know how long I get to basically shelter myself from almost everything because Stray wants to have a choice to continue to spread a disease around.

    Another year? Two? Five? Will there be a point where maybe you'll think about me? Or nah, you get yours so who cares?

  11. #953
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    I didn't yadda yadda them, I said to lock them down instead. Their lives aren't less important than mine, they're just at a higher risk of dying from this virus than I am.

    I'd rather we protect those who are at an increased risk of dying from the virus and allow the lower risk groups to have a choice.
    You say that, but there's no particularly effective way to separate out tens of millions from the rest of us. They live with us. They have kids. Not all of them can get their basic supplies via delivery. The people with health issues have to go to hospitals and doctor's offices. If the rest of us are filthy with this disease (also probably not a good idea), they're going to intersect with us. What you've got here is stuff people say, but no one actually knows how to do it. The way your proposal here likely would shake out is the at risk population with money likely could keep themselves reasonably sequestered while the at-risk population without money would die in elevated numbers. And that idea hardcore sucks.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    You say that, but there's no particularly effective way to separate out tens of millions from the rest of us. They live with us. They have kids. Not all of them can get their basic supplies via delivery. The people with health issues have to go to hospitals and doctor's offices. If the rest of us are filthy with this disease (also probably not a good idea), they're going to intersect with us. What you've got here is stuff people say, but no one actually knows how to do it. The way your proposal here likely would shake out is the at risk population with money likely could keep themselves reasonably sequestered while the at-risk population without money would die in elevated numbers. And that idea hardcore sucks.
    >but there's no particularly effective way to separate out tens of millions from the rest of us
    Sure there is, let them self quarantine. They know who they are.

    >They live with us. They have kids. Not all of them can get their basic supplies via delivery.
    In this scenario the family would have to figure out the best decision for themselves.

    >The people with health issues have to go to hospitals and doctor's offices.
    There's protocols at every doctor's office, hospital and even veterinarian offices to deal with Covid. If you're sick you shouldn't fear going to the doctor or hospital. Call ahead and make the proper arrangements. This would be the kinda disinfo that could kill someone.

    >If the rest of us are filthy with this disease
    What do you base this on? Much of the country has been operating business as usual for many months now. We're not "filty" with Covid.

    >the at risk population with money likely could keep themselves reasonably sequestered while the at-risk population without money would die in elevated numbers
    This is the outcome with blanket lockdowns as well. If you have the money to hide for a year or two, you're going to live.

    How exactly does the economics work if we have to do more lockdowns? And who decides what jobs and employees are expendable/essential? All I want is a choice. I'm not looking to force anyone to work when they don't feel it's safe.

  13. #955
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    How long do I get to go without seeing my friends or family? How long until it's safe for me to date again? I'd like to know how long I get to basically shelter myself from almost everything because Stray wants to have a choice to continue to spread a disease around.

    Another year? Two? Five? Will there be a point where maybe you'll think about me? Or nah, you get yours so who cares?
    Lotta personal questions here I can't answer for you friend. I live about 5 states away from you and I doubt much of what my state does has any effect on you. If you're not dating or seeing grandma, that's a you problem.

  14. #956
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It kind of sounds like my life actually is less important than yours, though. Your "choices" mean that I get to stay locked up for longer than need be. Because my life doesn't matter as much as your convenience.
    My choices are going to work, supporting fam and paying my bills. And I mean this with all due respect, but *none* of my personal choices affect you in any way whatsoever.

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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    I'd also add, Doug, if you're sheltering yourself you're at no risk to your family. If they're sheltering as well you guys can get together and throw a shindig if you want.

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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It kind of sounds like my life actually is less important than yours, though. Your "choices" mean that I get to stay locked up for longer than need be. Because my life doesn't matter as much as your convenience.
    Inconvenient it is for the Star-Belly Sneeches
    To have Plain-Bellys mingle in stores and on beaches
    So a plan was conceived by the Star-Belly kind
    To keep Plain-Bellys clear out of sight out of mind
    The claim will be that for Plain-Belly protection
    They must segregate to avoid the infection

    "It's for your own good!" the Star-Bellies shout
    As they rip off their masks and waive them about
    "Plain-Belly stay home! Stay out of our sights!"
    For lives aren't as important as Star-Belly rights
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  18. #959
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    People not having food on their table isn’t an inconvenience.

  19. #960
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    Re: COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    I didn't yadda yadda them, I said to lock them down instead. Their lives aren't less important than mine, they're just at a higher risk of dying from this virus than I am.

    I'd rather we protect those who are at an increased risk of dying from the virus and allow the lower risk groups to have a choice.
    Lemme guess which camp you are in.

    Guys! Guys! I know how we can solve the rona! Here's what we will do:

    All of you just need to quarantine and that will allow me
    to come and go as I please.

    Thanks everyone!
    He said he was curious about the crowd but didn’t want to stay and talk. “I’m heading out,” he said. “This is a super-spreader event.”

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