I agree. I think it should be enforced. It's politics. The Governor puts the mandate out to make people who think there should be precautions happy, but he chooses not to enforce it to keep from losing the vote of the soccer mom who is too entitled to wear one or the fringe people who would get up in arms about trying to enforce it. Politics and money are behind everything and the public health doesn't really matter in these decisions IMO.
I personally think that most of the people who don't comply are of the spoiled "I'm entitled" variety. At least that's what I see. That's why it irks me so much.
Last edited by mth123; 10-27-2020 at 12:49 PM.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
No. This disease is not like a forklift running over a shopper where liability is clear. If somebody tests positive, there is no way to link it to the store. I’ve had this discussion with a few of my customers, and they are not concerned whatsoever about the liability. They just want to keep everybody safe and do constant improvement with the feedback that they’ve been given.
He could easily enforce it if he wanted to, but it is far easier for him to rely on others to do the enforcement.
And they shouldn’t be held liable, because it’s impossible to prove where anybody contracted it. Again, it isn’t like a workplace accident where someone is electrocuted or run over overcome by poisonous gas.
If this became about liability, then businesses would concentrate on CYA instead. It would be to the detriment to everybody. That’s how one of my customers that I mentioned a couple months ago that had a few positive cases was able to change their layout and make the place even more safe. if it was about liability, they would have been resistant to changing the layout, because that could have given lawyers evidence that they knew they were at fault and they would have spent far more energy proving that the employees were negligent outside of the building.
Of course, if there was evidence that an employee came to work and was feverish and told the supervisor that he tested positive, and the supervisor said I don’t care, get back to work, that would be obvious negligence. But nobody is doing stuff like that.
Last edited by BernieCarbo; 10-27-2020 at 01:34 PM.
It's actually a federal rule of evidence that subsequent safety measures taken after an incident occurred cannot be used as evidence that an employer (in this case) was negligent/responsible in allowing an unsafe condition at the time an incident occurred. The public policy reasons for that rule of evidence are pretty obvious.
Yes, but in this case there are no federal rules. This pandemic isn’t even covered by OSHA outside of a few vague recommendations. There just hasn’t been enough research.
But overall, I agree. If a worker gets run over by a fork truck in a factory, and the company then puts up an overhead mirror to provide better visibility for pedestrians and the fork truck drivers, that in itself is not proof of negligence. But with this disease, there is absolutely no proof where or how anybody contracted it, and the fact that we even need legislation to protect employers is very telling.
Not only is it not proof, you cannot testify to it in court as evidence of negligence.
Here's the pertinent portion of the rule, by the way:
When measures are taken that would have made an earlier injury or harm less likely to occur, evidence of the subsequent measures is not admissible to prove:
negligence;
culpable conduct;
a defect in a product or its design; or
a need for a warning or instruction.
Last edited by Boston Red; 10-27-2020 at 01:50 PM.
I'm looking at the global Covid tracker, and I saw France with 125,000 new cases on 10/25, which was unbelievable. Still really bad, but then I noticed 25 cases 10/23 and 62 cases 10/24, so their daily numbers clearly don't mean anything. Their 7 day average of 36,000 is pretty awful given their population of 67 million. Hopefully Europe's spike is short-lived.
Recovered COVID-19 Patients Suffering From 'Brain Fog' And Lower IQ
But, hey, herd immunity and all that, amirite?A team of researchers from the Imperial College of London found that a growing number of patients who recovered from COVID-19 are suffering from "brain fog" and have seen their cognitive abilities diminish.
Patients who suffered the most severe symptoms of COVID-19 saw the largest mental decline. They found that people who were in the ICU or spent time on a ventilator saw their IQ drop by more than eight points. The effect was seen in patients who had mild symptoms as well, with some people who tested positive, showing a four-point decline in their IQ, which is the equivalent of aging five years.
"Individuals who recovered from suspected or confirmed Covid-19 perform worse on cognitive tests in multiple domains than would be *expected, given their detailed age and demographic profiles," the researchers wrote. "This deficit scales with symptom severity and is evident amongst those without hospital treatment."
Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. -- Carl Sagan (Pale Blue Dot)
Speaking of Europe, it is interesting that just by case count (which surely reflects increased testing), the second wave is already worse than the first wave everywhere in Europe....except for Sweden. Sweden certainly hasn't escaped a second wave, but their second wave is about equal to their first so far. Ireland is the only other country I can see within Europe that may be able to make the same claim, but I see their second wave chart topping out a touch above the first wave (but headed in the correct direction unlike most of Europe now).
So much of the conversation around COVID, not just here, reads as mini-power matches between strangers online and it feels like the topic could be substituted for anything. This go-to mode of relating with others by being adversarial for the sport of it is bizarre and kind of annoying when it's laid as thick noise over the national discussion of a health crisis.
There needs to be some kind of comb that sifts through the news and info and removes all the distortion and static caused by people who think COVID is a fun new toy to add to their 'argue with strangers for a quick hit of dopamine' box. At the very least, there needs to be some de-dupe button that blocks the same flimsy arguments from being repeated 1,000 times with zero change despite new information being made available. I can't imagine that people can follow this thread and others like it without getting worn down and depleted and I wonder if the non-news posts in this thread pose their own health risk to our weary populace. Let us out of this thread, Governor Hog!!!
Last edited by Larry Schuler; 10-27-2020 at 03:05 PM.
If you find a news source or find that “comb” that separates the wheat from the chaff, I’d love to see it.
She used to wake me up with coffee ever morning
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |