COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

[757690]

As usual, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Parks are not congested. I haven’t taken a bus in 40 years, but I don’t see congested bus stops either. Restaurants and bars and patios are packed, but they are not walk up. There aren’t crowds of people trying to get in. People drive in, get out of their cars, go in, and sit down. At the same time somebody else is finishing up, and leaving.

Again, I live here, I get out, and I don’t see crowds anywhere, and I don’t see any place where it be difficult to avoid people.

I grew up in Dayton and have family there. I talk to them regularly, especially about this situation. They paint a very different picture than the one you are painting.

[BernieCarbo]

I grew up in Dayton and have family there. I talk to them regularly, especially about this situation. They paint a very different picture than the one you are painting.

Of course. Well, tell me where the crowds are. Even at the Greene, which used to be elbow to elbow, you can often have a whole street to yourself.

[757690]

Of course. Well, tell me where the crowds are. Even at the Greene, which used to be elbow to elbow, you can often have a whole street to yourself.

I don’t know why I expected anything else from you.

Anyway, one family lives downtown, and see crowds all the time, almost no masks, they complain about it every time I talk to them.

But ignore Dayton. It’s absurd to argue that Cleveland, Cincinnati or Columbus don’t have any crowds.

[BernieCarbo]

I don’t know why I expected anything else from you.

Anyway, one family lives downtown, and see crowds all the time, almost no masks, they complain about it every time I talk to them.

But ignore Dayton. It’s absurd to argue that Cleveland, Cincinnati or Columbus don’t have any crowds.

I'm not arguing that, because I haven't been to those places for a year. But there are no crowds here unless they are walking around the UD campus.

[mth123]

Sure, if you live in a major metro where there are subways, the whole dynamic changes. I assumed this discussion was in the context of Ohio, and no way are we going to start issuing citations to private citizens.

And it’s easy to avoid situations like you saw by just not going there, as you did. And even then, they were outside. I doubt the risk there was any different than the risk of the patio I’m sitting at right now this very moment.

But it's not about Ohio. It's about stopping the spread in General. If it spreads in a big city, it will go elsewhere. I think that's a given. If not, nowhere but China would have any cases.

[mth123]

I'm not arguing that, because I haven't been to those places for a year. But there are no crowds here unless they are walking around the UD campus.

Well, if everywhere you go outside is all spread out with no crowds, then you don't need to where a mask. There are lots of places across the country that are crowded and people there should where masks to stop it from spreading. People who are exposed in those crowds bring it elsewhere and spread it. It's all about stopping the spread. No offense to anyone, but no one cares if any individual takes a risk, catches covid and suffers the consequences. We do care if that person spreads it to others in the process.

[757690]

I'm not arguing that.

I assumed this discussion was in the context of Ohio.

[BernieCarbo]

I assumed this discussion was in the context of Ohio.

As opposed to Los Angeles. You don't know anymore about Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati than I do.

But, on one hand you say that only 34% of people feel comfortable going out, but then on the other hand you say there are crowds all over and we need to fine people. Pure craziness.

[BernieCarbo]

Well, if everywhere you go outside is all spread out with no crowds, then you don't need to where a mask. There are lots of places across the country that are crowded and people there should where masks to stop it from spreading. People who are exposed in those crowds bring it elsewhere and spread it. It's all about stopping the spread. No offense to anyone, but no one cares if any individual takes a risk, catches covid and suffers the consequences. We do care if that person spreads it to others in the process.

Well, sure, and I don't know where you live, but aside from a few hillbilly rebels, people are doing what the governor requested. Apparently he doesn't see the danger in crossing the street without a mask.

[mth123]

Well, sure, and I don't know where you live, but aside from a few hillbilly rebels, people are doing what the governor requested. Apparently he doesn't see the danger in crossing the street without a mask.

In Dayton Ohio you probably don't need one. I'd imagine a street crossing in New York or Chicago is quite a tightly packed place.

[redhawkfish]

I have no problem wearing a mask inside. It makes sense and there is good data behind it. There's no compelling argument to wear one outside. We're also giving way too much time/attention to wiping things down. Don't tell me to trust the science and then misapply it.

Best post in all these threads!

[BernieCarbo]

In Dayton Ohio you probably don't need one. I'd imagine a street crossing in New York or Chicago is quite a tightly packed place.

Sure, make masks mandatory on a crowded New York City crosswalk. But on Main Street in downtown Dayton? I’ll pass, even though we can be assured that the cops wouldn’t issue frivolous tickets and would never use it for revenue enhancement.

[mth123]

Sure, make masks mandatory on a crowded New York City crosswalk. But on Main Street in downtown Dayton? I’ll pass, even though we can be assured that the cops wouldn’t issue frivolous tickets and would never use it for revenue enhancement.

Who suggested it be mandatory there? I made a suggestion of in public places indoors and outdoors in crowds. Dayton doesn't have that many crowds. If you can stay 6 feet apart (other than in passing for a second or two) I don't think a mask is needed outside. But there are lots of places in the US where people outside are still shoulder to shoulder for more than a few seconds. In those places, wear a mask, and yes, I think it should be mandatory and people should suffer significant penalties for ignoring it.

It shouldn't be up to some store clerk making minimum wage to enforce this. If we are serious about stopping the spread, then put some teeth into it. If not, let it run wild and suffer the consequences, which will include not only more medical issues and deaths, but a whole lot more unemployed people than what we are seeing now. Covid is what causing all the issues and stopping covid is the only solution to those issues. All this other blather is just political mudslinging in an election year and its coming from both sides and the particular media outlets who serve as mouthpieces for those sides.

[BernieCarbo]

Who suggested it be mandatory there? I made a suggestion of in public places indoors and outdoors in crowds. Dayton doesn't have that many crowds. If you can stay 6 feet apart (other than in passing for a second or two) I don't think a mask is needed outside. But there are lots of places in the US where people outside are still shoulder to shoulder for more than a few seconds. In those places, wear a mask, and yes, I think it should be mandatory and people should suffer significant penalties for ignoring it.

It shouldn't be up to some store clerk making minimum wage to enforce this. If we are serious about stopping the spread, then put some teeth into it. If not, let it run wild and suffer the consequences, which will include not only more medical issues and deaths, but a whole lot more unemployed people than what we are seeing now. Covid is what causing all the issues and stopping covid is the only solution to those issues. All this other blather is just political mudslinging in an election year and its coming from both sides and the particular media outlets who serve as mouthpieces for those sides.

Well, this is what you said originally: “ I think the population in general has proven they aren't capable of voluntarily complying with precautions. People who don't should be prosecuted, just like a drunk driver.“ Since we live in Ohio, I assumed you were talking about Ohio, not downtown New York City. At the end of the day, you’re not going to find a governor anywhere that is going to get behind handing out tickets to citizens over a mask.

From day one I’ve been against store clerks enforcing anything. Only a couple people here thought that was a good idea. But stores do have a huge say over the culture in their establishments. If someone walks into a convenience store, and the clerks have their masks tucked under their chins, the customers are going to say screw it also. But if the manager gets them in line, it rubs off on everybody. I mean, Kroger is pretty much 99% compliant, but they don’t have the deli clerk and the produce guy enforcing it. For a week or so, they had a woman at the door who was handing out masks to anybody who didn’t have one, and soon enough everybody just started wearing a mask. Do a few people come in without masks? Yes, but nobody bothers them because it isn’t worth the hassle.

And you know, this whole outdoor thing is silly. You need to stay home if you’re afraid that you’re going to meet people on the sidewalk and get too close to them, because there is no evidence that that is dangerous, plus the governor has already told us that it’s safe to sit outside together with other people on a patio for an hour, which is more exposure than you would ever get by routinely walking around. I don’t know where you live, but here we done a pretty good job in trying to make this work, and the result is that we have almost no deaths. You must live in a high risk area or something to know four people who have died, because the chances of that are so remote.

[Kingspoint]

Went to Seaside this weekend. On the crowded sidewalks, most everyone wore a mask. On the uncrowded sidewalks, most people would not have their mask on until they approach someone and most would slip it on. On the uncrowded beach, rarely was a mask worn. On a crowded beach, it should be.

To RiverRat's post: There have been lot's of studies done over the decades of how airborn viruses spread outside and inside. The results were that the best distance is 20 feet outside and 10 feet inside. The 6-feet rule came from a study done in the 30's and that distance was found to be inaccurate. Because the WHO used the study from 90 years ago when this prevention started back in March, that's the number that was run with and it never got changed. But, it's not accurate. But, then 6-feet or 10-feet or 50-feet doesn't do any good inside if the ventilation system just whips it all around.

It is true for the supporters of not wearing a mask that bureacracies have politicized the entire pandemic and that the rules have been completely arbitrary and therefore not justifying anyone to have to do anything at all. Common sense should tell everyong that everyone is responsible for not spreading the virus to others by becoming a carrier, symptomatic or asymptomatic, and you become a carrier when you expose yourself to someone who has it by being in the same room with them for too long or outside with them for too long, or an accumulated amount from multiple people who have it being in contact with them for brief periods.

So, as we have clearly entered the 2nd wave in Europe and are on the cusp of reentering the 2nd wave in the U.S., we will be heading back indoors for long periods of time exposing ourselves to multiple people who have COVID-19, and common sense and civic responsibility suggests that each of us wear masks in these situations, and to get your flu shot now, so that you don't waste COVID-19 resources (healthcare workers' time and resources spent dealing with your flu when it's needed for other things, such as testing someone for COVID-19 when they have the flu instead that could have been prevented with a shot in September/October).