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Thread: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

  1. #46
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    I would be onboard with starting the rookie from Kansas this week on the right side....he can't be worse than Johnson was at guard.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    How bad are the Bengals, specifically their Offensive and Defensive Lines?

    They are so bad that they are 6.5-point underdogs to a horrible Philadelphia team that gave up 8 sacks to the Redskins and lost more Offensive Linemen in Game 2. Philadelphia has no Wide Receivers other than DeSean Jackson and Reagor. They do have excellent Tight Ends in Goedert and Ertz, but their Quarterback is doing as poorly as his Rookie season four years ago.

    They are so bad, that even though the Bengals' Secondary is 3rd best in the NFL as far as fewest fantasy points given up to Wide Receivers (which is Receptions, Total Yards and Touchdowns), the 3rd best ranking is as much to do with the Chargers and Browns ability to run at will on them making it unnecessary to throw to Wide Receivers. I don't know what it is, but I imagine the Bengals are giving up more than 5.5 yards per rushing attempt, meaning that they are consistently getting into the 2nd level.

    They are so bad that their pass-rush is almost non-existent. They have to be dead last in the NFL in QB pressure percentage.

    Of course, I could have just said what was said back in March of 2019,..."Any Offensive Line that features (when you pay a Right Tackle $8M per year, you are featuring him) Bobby Hart as their best Lineman has got to be the worst Offensive Line in the entire NFL." That he hasn't been replaced since then and that he was even signed at the time makes the Ownership the absolute worst of any franchise in the NFL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    I would be onboard with starting the rookie from Kansas this week on the right side....he can't be worse than Johnson was at guard.
    I truly wish Bobby Hart would slip in the bathtub. The reason Hart never gets hurt is because he never puts out any effort, playing matador defense with his hands the entire game.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  5. #48
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Stats of the Day

    Through two games, when teams run (including QB's) to Cincinnati's Left End/Contain/Back-7/8 Run Coverage (that's not behind where the Right Tackle lines up for the other team, but an actual end run outside of the Tackle/Tight End), the Bengals have the 3rd best results in the NFL giving up only 0.73 yards per attempt according to Football Outsiders.

    Conversely, when teams run [including QB's to Cincinnati's Right End/Contain/Back-7/8 Run Coverage (outside the Offense's Tight End/Left Tackle)], the Bengals rank 31st in the NFL giving up 8.30 yards per attempt.

    Gee, I wonder where Miles Sanders is going to be running on Sunday?

    But wait, there's more.

    So where do the Bengals Defensive Line rank if a runner runs behind the other three listed spots that the official NFL stats list?

    Running (including QB's) at the Offense's Left Tackle (the Bengals' right Defensive End) the Bengals rank 22nd at 5.65 ypc.

    Running (including QB's) at the Offense's Right Tackle (the Bengals' left Defensive End) the Bengals rank 18th at 4.54 ypc.

    Running (including QB's) up the middle behind Center or either Guard (the NFL doesn't differentiate LG or RG) the Bengals rank 27th at 5.12 ypc.

    When Geno comes back, I would put him over the Center's left shoulder and sometimes let him rush from the Bengal's far right side outside the other team's LT, but I'd keep him on the right side of the Bengals' line.

    On a positive note, the Bengals rank 3rd best in the NFL on this Run Defense statistic where they are giving up just a 30% success rate and the NFL average is 60%:

    Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer.

    You would think that there elite ability to stop the run on short yardage would translate to their ability for stuffing a run, defined as the percentage of runs where the running back is tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage. But, it doesn't. The Bengals rank 28th in this achieving the goal at only a 12% rate (the NFL average is 17%).

    Cincinnati ranks 30th and 27th, respectively, on these last two Defensive Run team statistics:

    Second Level Yards: Yards earned by opposing running backs against this team between 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries.
    Open Field Yards: Yards earned by opposing running backs against this team more than 10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  6. #49
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Saw a mock today that had the Bengals picking 5th and taking Patrick Surtain II.

    If Sewell isn’t available where would you like to see the Bengals go since this is a multi year rebuild. Wyatt Davis? Greg Rousseau?
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Saw a mock today that had the Bengals picking 5th and taking Patrick Surtain II.

    If Sewell isn’t available where would you like to see the Bengals go since this is a multi year rebuild. Wyatt Davis? Greg Rousseau?
    Offensive Tackle. It starts and ends right there.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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  9. #51
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    BPA but trade down if their guy isn't there.

    Well, I can dream anyway.
    He said he was curious about the crowd but didn’t want to stay and talk. “I’m heading out,” he said. “This is a super-spreader event.”

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Do whatever is necessary to get Sewell. Trade away as many picks/players as necessary.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    I just hope they have a strong option #2 and don’t panic when a team in front of them takes who they want because they seem to Telegraph their intentions. Then they panic and take a Sean Brewer or Jerome Simpson WTF type pick.

  13. #54
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    BPA but trade down if their guy isn't there.

    Well, I can dream anyway.
    I'd be ok with them trading down . . . IF they'd actually consider it.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  14. #55
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    The SPIN: From bengals.com:

    https://www.bengals.com/news/taylor-...act-for-eagles

    GH: How would you characterize the play of the offensive line? A lot of people are down on them. It sounds like you guys are not.

    ZT: That's kind of the fun thing to do right now. We'll just continue to make the corrections. It's always one different error in the run game. We've got to get everybody in sync and we've got some explosive runs that can show up. In the pass game, really, we've faced two of the premier rushers in the NFL and our guys have really battled and given Joe a chance back there.

    GH: Are you worried about the hits Joe is taking? Or is just what happens in the NFL?

    ZT: I think it's a little bit overblown. There are some things not necessarily hits, pressures that may appear that way, but these guys up front are fighting their tails off.


    The TRUTH: From PFF's analysis of the Cleveland game, for example, a game where they should have improved from the first game against the Chargers:

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-five-ta...ls-week-2-2020

    BURROW'S OFFENSIVE LINE MAKES IT HARD FOR HIM TO GET ANYTHING COOKING

    "Burrow had to play from behind for most of the game and was put to work as a result — he tripled Mayfield's dropbacks in the game. That means he also saw a substantial amount of pressure due to his lowly offensive line. While he did invite some pressure in himself and should’ve seen the Myles Garrett strip-sack coming, the offensive line had Burrow under pressure on 32% of his dropbacks. And when he wasn’t under pressure, he got the ball out extremely quickly. Of his 45 attempts from a clean pocket, Burrow had a time-to-throw of under 2.0 seconds on 19. And overall, he had an average time-to-throw of 2.3 seconds on those passes.

    Altogether, the Bengals' offensive line combined for 40 losses on the night (pressures plus plays when the defender wins but doesn’t obtain pressure). That would be hard for any quarterback to overcome, but Burrow still wasn’t terrible, finishing with a 67.2 passing grade. It could have been better, but it also could have been much worse, and I would guess a good chunk of NFL quarterbacks would struggle significantly behind that line. He did have an underthrown ball that should have been picked on his end-zone shot to A.J. Green before the end of the first half, but Burrow notched three big-time throws in the game. His best throw happened to be his first career touchdown pass. Cincinnati ran four verticals against Cleveland’s Cover 6 defense and hit the weakside Cover 2 hole perfectly. That was the only downfield shot he hit all game.

    The others he attempted weren’t so great. Still, Burrow once again was able to routinely deliver catchable targets to his receivers at the short and intermediate levels, which helped him earn an 80.7 passing grade on those throws. Those empty formations work — even with a bad offensive line. In addition, it’s impressive how much he shows up in big moments as a rookie — his final drive in Week 1 and the fourth downs against Cleveland where he went five for five are a testament to that. But if we want to see this Cincinnati offense start successfully attacking downfield, the offensive line has to give him more time and be better overall."
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  15. #56
    Winning is fun.
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Hitting multiple deep throws is the main thing I hope to see this week.

  16. #57
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Denial is not just a river in Africa. This explains last off-season perfectly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    The SPIN: From bengals.com:

    https://www.bengals.com/news/taylor-...act-for-eagles

    GH: How would you characterize the play of the offensive line? A lot of people are down on them. It sounds like you guys are not.

    ZT: That's kind of the fun thing to do right now. We'll just continue to make the corrections. It's always one different error in the run game. We've got to get everybody in sync and we've got some explosive runs that can show up. In the pass game, really, we've faced two of the premier rushers in the NFL and our guys have really battled and given Joe a chance back there.

    GH: Are you worried about the hits Joe is taking? Or is just what happens in the NFL?

    ZT: I think it's a little bit overblown. There are some things not necessarily hits, pressures that may appear that way, but these guys up front are fighting their tails off.


    The TRUTH: From PFF's analysis of the Cleveland game, for example, a game where they should have improved from the first game against the Chargers:

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-five-ta...ls-week-2-2020

    BURROW'S OFFENSIVE LINE MAKES IT HARD FOR HIM TO GET ANYTHING COOKING

    "Burrow had to play from behind for most of the game and was put to work as a result — he tripled Mayfield's dropbacks in the game. That means he also saw a substantial amount of pressure due to his lowly offensive line. While he did invite some pressure in himself and should’ve seen the Myles Garrett strip-sack coming, the offensive line had Burrow under pressure on 32% of his dropbacks. And when he wasn’t under pressure, he got the ball out extremely quickly. Of his 45 attempts from a clean pocket, Burrow had a time-to-throw of under 2.0 seconds on 19. And overall, he had an average time-to-throw of 2.3 seconds on those passes.

    Altogether, the Bengals' offensive line combined for 40 losses on the night (pressures plus plays when the defender wins but doesn’t obtain pressure). That would be hard for any quarterback to overcome, but Burrow still wasn’t terrible, finishing with a 67.2 passing grade. It could have been better, but it also could have been much worse, and I would guess a good chunk of NFL quarterbacks would struggle significantly behind that line. He did have an underthrown ball that should have been picked on his end-zone shot to A.J. Green before the end of the first half, but Burrow notched three big-time throws in the game. His best throw happened to be his first career touchdown pass. Cincinnati ran four verticals against Cleveland’s Cover 6 defense and hit the weakside Cover 2 hole perfectly. That was the only downfield shot he hit all game.

    The others he attempted weren’t so great. Still, Burrow once again was able to routinely deliver catchable targets to his receivers at the short and intermediate levels, which helped him earn an 80.7 passing grade on those throws. Those empty formations work — even with a bad offensive line. In addition, it’s impressive how much he shows up in big moments as a rookie — his final drive in Week 1 and the fourth downs against Cleveland where he went five for five are a testament to that. But if we want to see this Cincinnati offense start successfully attacking downfield, the offensive line has to give him more time and be better overall."

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    Kingspoint (09-23-2020)

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    We will keep working with the group we have is Mike Brown speak that’s been regurgitated since Coslet and better by Lewis.
    You can make trades sure or look for players that are not part of the They know our system network. But with no fear of failure there is no fear of being replaced.

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    We will keep working with the group we have is Mike Brown speak that’s been regurgitated since Coslet and better by Lewis.
    You can make trades sure or look for players that are not part of the They know our system network. But with no fear of failure there is no fear of being replaced.
    There truly is no fear of failure among the players which trickles down from the Brown family.

    Don't complain and collect your check is the only thing to concern yourself with.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  20. #60
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    I dont see but 2 wins max from this team, just to many wholes that were not filled by drafting a QB #1 and not trading the pick.


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