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Thread: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Quote Originally Posted by plantmanky View Post
    I dont see but 2 wins max from this team, just to many wholes that were not filled by drafting a QB #1 and not trading the pick.
    Or, not investing in that QB pick by adding the talent "that is necessary" on the O-Line for him to progress at an expected rate and to physically and mentally survive.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."


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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    When you have the chance to draft a franchise QB, you do it. I'm in complete agreement that the pick should not have been traded. But I also agree that they really needed to invest in at least one or two more linemen to protect Burrow.
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    When you have the chance to draft a franchise QB, you do it. I'm in complete agreement that the pick should not have been traded. But I also agree that they really needed to invest in at least one or two more linemen to protect Burrow.
    Burrow was a no-brainer pick. Protecting him was also a no-brainer.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    And if any organization was known for “no-brains....”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Burrow was a no-brainer pick. Protecting him was also a no-brainer.

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    FYI...going into the season, PFF's Offensive Line Rankings had the Bengals listed at #31 (lest one has forgotten, there are 32 teams).

    31. CINCINNATI BENGALS

    Only two teams had a worse offensive line than the Bengals last season. The good news is the return of 2019 first-rounder Jonah Williams, whose lost season due to injury led to Cordy Glenn, John Jerry, Andre Smith and Fred Johnson all playing at least 130 snaps at left tackle in 2019. Williams was a polished college player who finished with the nation’s third-best overall grade (89.2) in 2018. Even in his first year of action, he should bring some stability to a position that has had issues since the departure of Andrew Whitworth after the 2016 season. The rest of the line has plenty of question marks, including right tackle Bobby Hart, who did take a step forward in pass protection last season but has still been well below average in his four seasons as a starter (109th out of 151 qualifiers on true pass sets). Hart has also ranked as a bottom-10 run-blocker in each of his last two seasons.

    At left guard, both Michael Jordan and Billy Price graded in the 40s and ranked among the bottom six guards last season, and they’ll both be in the mix to start again. Xavier Su’a-Filo joins the three-way competition after posting his highest grade since 2016, a 60.1 mark that came on only 307 snaps. Jordan, Price and Su’a-Filo will battle for the two starting guard spots in what looks like one of the worst situations in the league unless two of the three improve quite a bit. Trey Hopkins earned a career-high 62.4 grade at center last year, but even that still ranked just 24th among players at the position. Even with Williams’ return, the Bengals have only marginally improved up front this offseason.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    If you believe in PFF, then you have to conclude:

    1. The Bengals tackles aren't great, but aren't the disaster Bengals fans think they are.

    2. The Bengals (and a lot of fans) have overrated Trey Hopkins at center.

    3. The guards are absolutely a disaster.

    I think the tackles would be better if they had competent guards beside them. But if there's a chance to get a great tackle, they should obviously do it. I think they will win too many games to get a Sewell, but if they don't, taking him and moving Jonah Williams inside may kill two birds with one stone.

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Goodberry released PFF ranks via twitter overall numbers are bad but pass blocking is awful...

    Bengals OL ranks according to PFF

    Jonah Williams 41/71 OTs
    Michael Jordan 52/73 OGs
    Trey Hopkins 23/35 OCs
    Fred Johnson 57/73 OGs
    Bobby Hart 43/71 OTs


    PFF's pass block efficiency rankings...

    Jonah Williams 42/71
    Michael Jordan 45/72
    Trey Hopkins 22/35
    Fred Johnson 69/72
    Bobby Hart 63/71
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    Goodberry released PFF ranks via twitter overall numbers are bad but pass blocking is awful...

    Bengals OL ranks according to PFF

    Jonah Williams 41/71 OTs
    Michael Jordan 52/73 OGs
    Trey Hopkins 23/35 OCs
    Fred Johnson 57/73 OGs
    Bobby Hart 43/71 OTs


    PFF's pass block efficiency rankings...

    Jonah Williams 42/71
    Michael Jordan 45/72
    Trey Hopkins 22/35
    Fred Johnson 69/72
    Bobby Hart 63/71
    Been looking for those free somewhere. Thanks for posting them.

    I looked at the first column first, and saw Bobby Hart at 43 of 71, and thought, "no way", but was willing to defer to PFF as they look at every play, but then I saw the next group, which was the Pass-blocking and that's the Bobby Hart we all know and loathe (actually better than I thought, as Hart gets a borderline "D"/"D-". On my Bell Curve that (I went to a Catholic grade school. No participation trophies. No dumbing down of the curriculum to push kids through the system and not hurt their feelings. Homework every day mandatory without any time to "finish it" at school.)

    My Bell Curve for "72", the number listed among the "qualified tackles, right and left" from PFF (Tackles have "71", so every number below "C" moves up by one, so a "C-" would be 47-50, and so on, making Hart a "D-", not a "D"):

    1 -- A+
    2-6 -- A
    7 -- A-
    8-9 -- B+
    10-19 -- B
    20-21 -- B-
    22-25 -- C+
    26-47 (26-46 for T's) -- C
    48-51 (T47-50) -- C-
    52-53 (T51-52) -- D+
    54-63 (T53-62) -- D
    64-65 (T63-64) -- D-
    66 (T65) -- F+
    67-71 (T66-70) -- F
    72 (T71) -- F-

    PBR = Pass Blocking Ranking
    RBR = Run Blocking Ranking
    OR = Overall Ranking

    Bengals OL ranks according to PFF

    Overall Ranking (Overall "Grades" are always halfway between their Run-blocking grades and Pass-blocking grades without consideration for number of plays of each type run, so it's easy to calculate their run-blocking rankings here, so I'll add the third column.)

    Jonah Williams 41/71 OG = "C"
    Michael Jordan 52/73 OG = "C-" (would be a "D+" on a 72-scale)
    Trey Hopkins 23/35 OG = "C"
    Fred Johnson 57/73 OG = "D"
    Bobby Hart 43/71 OG = "C"

    Williams, Jordan and Hart are all on the low end of the "C" scale on the OR, much closer to a "C-" than a "C+"


    PFF's Pass Block Efficiency rankings...

    Jonah Williams 42/71 PBR = "C"
    Michael Jordan 45/72 PBR = "C"
    Trey Hopkins 22/35 PBR = "C"
    Fred Johnson 69/72 PBR = "F"
    Bobby Hart 63/71 PBR = "D-"

    Hopkins, Jordan and Williams are all on the low end of the "C" scale on the PBR, much closer to a "C-" than a "C+"


    PFF's Run Block Efficiency rankings:

    Jonah Williams 40/71 RBR = "C"
    Michael Jordan 59/72 RBR = "D"
    Trey Hopkins 24/35 RBR = "C-"
    Fred Johnson 45/73 RBR = "C"
    Bobby Hart 23/71 RBR = "C+"

    And, now we know why Bobby Hart is starting,...he's our best run-blocker so far (among the "Starters", at least), and is performing better than league average. But, when you have a franchise Quarterback throwing the ball 61 times, it's not worth it to have a run-blocker whose "best" is a "C+", and whose pass-blocking is a "D-", especially when the guy next to him is an "F". Fred Johnson is at the low end of the "C" scale, while Jonah Williams is much closer to a "C-" than a "C+". It also explains my post a couple days ago which showed us giving up less than one yard per rush attempt on the right end, which would almost always involve a TE blocking. Would love to know the run-blocking and pass-blocking rankings of our TE's.


    PFF's "Rankings" takes about four games into the season before there's enough of a mix of opponents to balance out the rankings. This is just two games, so a much truer assessment will be available after two more games.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 09-24-2020 at 03:06 PM.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

    Bengals DL Geno Atkins (shoulder) missed practice Thursday. The team's website said Atkins' looks to be out for a second straight game, along with DL Mike Daniels (groin). The Bengals' defense has been, shall we say, porous with Atkins out of the lineup. Miles Sanders and the Eagles should be able to gouge Cincy's front seven this week just as the Browns did in Week 2.

    SOURCE: Bengals.com
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Is Geno Atkins this years AJ Green...Bengals expected him back this week and yet here we are once again.
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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    From Profootball Focus:

    LB Germaine Pratt, Cincinnati Bengals

    Pratt started the back half of the 2019 season for Cincinnati and had a couple of solid games, but mixed in there were a multitude of really poor ones. He ended up finishing the year with a PFF grade of 51.0, struggling in just about every facet.

    As a whole, the Bengals' linebacker unit played extremely poorly in 2019, which prompted the Bengals to take three in the 2020 NFL Draft. Still, Pratt had his starting job to perhaps overcome his rookie woes. He has far from done that in his first two games.

    Pratt has earned a 35.3 PFF grade so far this season, 60th of 67 qualifying off-ball linebackers. Once again, it's no particular facet that is causing the poor play, but rather the whole position — he's missed three tackles on 12 attempts and allowed all five of his targets in coverage to be caught for a 102.5 passer rating allowed. Granted, Akeem Davis-Gaither (39.8 overall grade) and Logan Wilson (27.4) have got off to similarly poor starts, so it's not as if Pratt will lose snaps anytime soon. Regardless, it doesn't seem like he's going to turn it around.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    Is Geno Atkins this years AJ Green...Bengals expected him back this week and yet here we are once again.
    The medical issues surrounding the franchise continue to be inept, at best. He should have been placed on I.R. and a replacement for him added. He's being ruled out early in the week. He's clearly out for a minimum of three weeks.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Been looking for those free somewhere. Thanks for posting them.

    I looked at the first column first, and saw Bobby Hart at 43 of 71, and thought, "no way", but was willing to defer to PFF as they look at every play, but then I saw the next group, which was the Pass-blocking and that's the Bobby Hart we all know and loathe (actually better than I thought, as Hart gets a borderline "D"/"D-". On my Bell Curve that (I went to a Catholic grade school. No participation trophies. No dumbing down of the curriculum to push kids through the system and not hurt their feelings. Homework every day mandatory without any time to "finish it" at school.)

    My Bell Curve for "72", the number listed among the "qualified tackles, right and left" from PFF (Tackles have "71", so every number below "C" moves up by one, so a "C-" would be 47-50, and so on, making Hart a "D-", not a "D"):

    1 -- A+
    2-6 -- A
    7 -- A-
    8-9 -- B+
    10-19 -- B
    20-21 -- B-
    22-25 -- C+
    26-47 (26-46 for T's) -- C
    48-51 (T47-50) -- C-
    52-53 (T51-52) -- D+
    54-63 (T53-62) -- D
    64-65 (T63-64) -- D-
    66 (T65) -- F+
    67-71 (T66-70) -- F
    72 (T71) -- F-

    PBR = Pass Blocking Ranking
    RBR = Run Blocking Ranking
    OR = Overall Ranking

    Bengals OL ranks according to PFF

    Overall Ranking (Overall "Grades" are always halfway between their Run-blocking grades and Pass-blocking grades without consideration for number of plays of each type run, so it's easy to calculate their run-blocking rankings here, so I'll add the third column.)

    Jonah Williams 41/71 OG = "C"
    Michael Jordan 52/73 OG = "C-" (would be a "D+" on a 72-scale)
    Trey Hopkins 23/35 OG = "C"
    Fred Johnson 57/73 OG = "D"
    Bobby Hart 43/71 OG = "C"

    Williams, Jordan and Hart are all on the low end of the "C" scale on the OR, much closer to a "C-" than a "C+"


    PFF's Pass Block Efficiency rankings...

    Jonah Williams 42/71 PBR = "C"
    Michael Jordan 45/72 PBR = "C"
    Trey Hopkins 22/35 PBR = "C"
    Fred Johnson 69/72 PBR = "F"
    Bobby Hart 63/71 PBR = "D-"

    Hopkins, Jordan and Williams are all on the low end of the "C" scale on the PBR, much closer to a "C-" than a "C+"


    PFF's Run Block Efficiency rankings:

    Jonah Williams 40/71 RBR = "C"
    Michael Jordan 59/72 RBR = "D"
    Trey Hopkins 24/35 RBR = "C-"
    Fred Johnson 45/73 RBR = "C"
    Bobby Hart 23/71 RBR = "C+"

    And, now we know why Bobby Hart is starting,...he's our best run-blocker so far (among the "Starters", at least), and is performing better than league average. But, when you have a franchise Quarterback throwing the ball 61 times, it's not worth it to have a run-blocker whose "best" is a "C+", and whose pass-blocking is a "D-", especially when the guy next to him is an "F". Fred Johnson is at the low end of the "C" scale, while Jonah Williams is much closer to a "C-" than a "C+". It also explains my post a couple days ago which showed us giving up less than one yard per rush attempt on the right end, which would almost always involve a TE blocking. Would love to know the run-blocking and pass-blocking rankings of our TE's.


    PFF's "Rankings" takes about four games into the season before there's enough of a mix of opponents to balance out the rankings. This is just two games, so a much truer assessment will be available after two more games.
    Not sure why they havenít looked to Hart to play Guard...he is by all accounts a good run blocker and Johnson by size looks to be better suited to play tackle. To me the common denominator is Turner...
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

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    UKFlounder (09-25-2020)

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    Not sure why they haven’t looked to Hart to play Guard...he is by all accounts a good run blocker and Johnson by size looks to be better suited to play tackle. To me the common denominator is Turner...
    Turner has done nothing other than to support fans' opinions since Day 1 that he is unqualified for his job.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: 2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    Not sure why they havenít looked to Hart to play Guard...he is by all accounts a good run blocker and Johnson by size looks to be better suited to play tackle. To me the common denominator is Turner...
    I could be wrong, but I believe Hart is traditionally one of the worst graded run blocking tackles in the league, at least according to PFF.


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