David Bell Needs to...Stay?

[Kc61]

Reds’ lack of fundamentals, IMO, is primarily a function of the roster.

They don’t cover all the basics. Speed, outfield defense, relief pitching, hitting lefties. These are basic elements that have been weak. Result is a .500 type team, even with good talent level.

Example: they improved the DP combo with Farmer/India and it helped. Fundamental task, covering middle infield and getting DPs. It worked with skilled players. Personnel.

I don’t blame David Bell much although no manager is safe when his team collapses down the stretch.

[Tom Servo]

I remember hearing all the stuff about bad fundamentals when Dusty was the manager too. All teams have miscues, it ultimately comes down to runs scored vs runs allowed with a touch of errors. The rest is mostly noise.

[mth123]

Strongly disagree.

Sparky, Lou and Dusty all managed Reds teams that had strong fundamentals. The other teams they managed all had strong fundamentals. It wasn’t the players, it wasn’t the organizations. It was the managers.

We see this all the time. Some managers always have teams with strong fundamentals, some managers always have teams with weak fundamentals.

They managed teams that had strong fundamentals because players who weren't fundamentally sound didn't last. It wasn't because they taught them what to do, They weeded out the boneheads. None of those guys had guys on long term contracts that they were stuck with. Do you really think Sparky Anderson taught Joe Morgan or Dave Concepcion how to run the bases or slide properly or to not make an out at 3B or home. A guy like George Foster was a professional. He became what he was as a result of his own professionalism. Dusty's teams made a lot of TOOTBLANS btw. Not sure I agree how fundamentally sound those teams were.

[Kc61]

Have to define fundamentals.

I define it as a team with the basic talents and skills needed to play winning ball. Not missing important elements of a team. Fundamentals being synonymous with team basics.

Some define it as not making mistakes. All players make mistakes, most big leaguers relatively few, it can be unpredictable, I worry less about that.

My concern with the Reds is more the former and less the latter. If you have the team basics, you’re usually covered.

[CaiGuy]

I don't know we assume that defensive "fundamentals" are something that can exist regardless of the ability of the player. Maybe good defensive players are fundamentally sound and bad defenders are just bad at defensive skills all around. The Reds have a lack of good defenders for sure.

It might be something like plate discipline. You either have it or don't even if you have 1000's of AB's across every level.

[CaiGuy]

Regarding Bell, fire him tomorrow if he is the problem whatever.

But unless you have a way for the pitching staff and defense to allow about 100 less runs I don't know what it changes. And I don't know what manager has than kind of impact, only players. If that manager existed he'd be payed like a pitcher.

[Tom Servo]

Regarding Bell, fire him tomorrow if he is the problem whatever.

But unless you have a way for the pitching staff and defense to allow about 100 less runs I don't know what it changes. And I don't know what manager has than kind of impact, only players. If that manager existed he'd be payed like a pitcher.

I think the really good managers are able to squeeze a little bit more out here and there but yeah the kind of squeezing we’d be talking about here is nigh impossible.

It’s interesting to me how little Joe Girardi gets talked about here. He was the Reds guy it seemed before he spurned them and they turned to David Bell. This was seen by many here as a major rebuke of the Reds by a “good manager”, yet Girardi still isn’t even .500 in his tenure as Phillies manager despite a massive payroll.

[Chip R]

One thing to remember: If Bell goes, Derek Johnson may go as well. And Kyle Boddy as well.

[757690]

Have to define fundamentals.

I define it as a team with the basic talents and skills needed to play winning ball. Not missing important elements of a team. Fundamentals being synonymous with team basics.

Some define it as not making mistakes. All players make mistakes, most big leaguers relatively few, it can be unpredictable, I worry less about that.

My concern with the Reds is more the former and less the latter. If you have the team basics, you’re usually covered.

This is what the disagreement is about.

I am referring to the latter... mistakes. The Reds have been making many more than a MLB should this season, and losing games because of them.

I agree that every players knows the fundamentals. It's not about teaching them, it's about emphasizing them, working on them so that they become second nature. That clearly is not the case with Bell and this team.

[Wonderful Monds]

One thing to remember: If Bell goes, Derek Johnson may go as well. And Kyle Boddy as well.

Hey, maybe we should make Derek Johnson manager to prevent that from happening!

[M2]

This thread has me trying to remember when we were visited by the inane thoughts of the poster known as Bad Fundamentals. Was it early days? Dusty era?

[Tom Servo]

This thread has me trying to remember when we were visited by the inane thoughts of the poster known as Bad Fundamentals. Was it early days? Dusty era?

I think he was at his peak when Dunn was still on the team.

[Ron Madden]

This thread has me trying to remember when we were visited by the inane thoughts of the poster known as Bad Fundamentals. Was it early days? Dusty era?

It was after Adam Dunn made his major league debut. He hated Adam Dunn with the passion of the cross.

[westofyou]

I think he was at his peak when Dunn was still on the team.

He was fun! Like a toothache or a cut on the bottom of your foot

[Ron Madden]

He was fun! Like a toothache or a cut on the bottom of your foot

LOL, remember KRISPY? K' s with runners in scoring position.