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Thread: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

  1. #46
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Alright fine, we've moved from "they shouldn't mess around with open auditions" to "they should have chosen more former closers for the open auditions". Don't care to argue about a bunch of guys who were on the discarded pile 9 months ago. I WILL say that Greg Holland might be a decent target in free agency this offseason. Fin.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.


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  3. #47
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Brooks Raley has quietly pitched pretty well for the Astros...
    Trash cans!

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    MR X (09-22-2020)

  5. #48
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    If the Reds had made better choices - even on the reclamation types - some would have worked out for them too.

    Everything isn’t luck and magic.
    If I picked better powerball numbers I would be rich. Picking relievers is largely luck and magic.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  7. #49
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    All relievers are risks and gambles. But Jones was a bigger gamble than most because of all his injuries.

    Btw, Box had 32 saves in 2018. That is success, even if his ERA was high.
    So now we are calling Raisel Iglesias 2019 season a success?
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  8. #50
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Last time Jones worked more than 30 MLB innings was 2016. His most recent good, full season was 2016. Before that he pitched full seasons in 2012-2013.

    Maybe the other guys mentioned are similar, I dont know.

    But 2012-13, 2016 was a bridge too far for me.
    The rest seem pretty similar.

    Boxbergers only good season over 30 IP, was 2014. Otherwise he has just been a bullpen arm.

    Rosenthal had barely pitched since 2017 and when he did it seemed like he had the yips last year after recovering from TJ.

    McGee's last good year was 2017, but he didn't take well to Coors at all, always had good road numbers. Would have been a worthy gamble. But seems comparable to the gamble we took on Pedro Strop.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  10. #51
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    So now we are calling Raisel Iglesias 2019 season a success?
    Fair point.

    Those saves should definitely be considered “success”, but his overall season probably isn’t “a success.” Servo claimed Box hadn’t experienced any success in the last 4 years. I think he has, even if it was just in saves.
    Were going to get the pitching. -Bob Castellini
    You got the pitching, now what? - Reds fans

  11. #52
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    The rest seem pretty similar.

    Boxbergers only good season over 30 IP, was 2014. Otherwise he has just been a bullpen arm.

    Rosenthal had barely pitched since 2017 and when he did it seemed like he had the yips last year after recovering from TJ.

    McGee's last good year was 2017, but he didn't take well to Coors at all, always had good road numbers. Would have been a worthy gamble. But seems comparable to the gamble we took on Pedro Strop.
    Then maybe none of them were worthy. In the past, Reds have mostly used these reclamation types as insurance at AAA. In my view, this season they put too much emphasis on them.

    Reds didn’t have enough good bullpen arms early IMO, and are fortunate that Sims and Antone worked out well. While there’s always risk involved with relievers, the Reds’ low cost - higher risk - veteran emphasis did not pay off.

  12. #53
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Berenyi View Post
    I am disconsolate, chagrined and lugubrious Jones so much reminded me of Jose Pena, Jon Noreiga and Marcus Moore with a soupcon of Bob Lee Bob Locke and Bill Short,,dont you agree
    I don't know. I kind of amphibious about the whole thing!
    "Baseball is only dull to those with dull minds."

  13. #54
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    If I picked better powerball numbers I would be rich. Picking relievers is largely luck and magic.
    Seems like the "one simple trick" is whether the guy is able to step on the gas.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    So now we are calling Raisel Iglesias 2019 season a success?
    I recommend keeping that case open through Sunday.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

  14. #55
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    I think we're splitting hairs too much here on individual players. The Reds bullpen, as a whole, was pretty bad in 2019. Lorenzen was the only guy who seemed to have a reliable season. It needed to be addressed over the winter. The big acquisition was Strop. A guy with a 5 ERA in 2019. They brought in some lesser non-roster guys, but nothing to say, they addressed one of their biggest problems. It was pretty certain that some of these guys would step up and have good seasons. The question was that nobody knew who it would be exactly so they spent over a month experimenting with guys and losing games in the process. The bullpen has vastly improved. I don't even think it's a big issue now, but the decision to go the tryout route still cost them a few games while they were figuring it out. This year, a few games is a lot.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Bruce Berenyi (09-23-2020),Mitri (09-23-2020)

  16. #56
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    You never understood the bullpen. I told you the Reds would not make big changes over the off-season because they had done their tweaking during the season. And sure enough, a 1.8 million, 1 year deal to Strop is biggest move they made, and they cast him aside like a wet Kleenex.

    It took 3 weeks for our guys to return to form. The equivalent of the 3rd week in April. Since then they've been one of the best pens in MLB. A few days ago I heard best in the NL and 2nd best in MLB since Aug 13th. They were one of the major reasons for our run.

    Now, let me tell you the process has repeated for 2021. We've made our big bullpen move for 2021 this season when we picked up Bradley.

    Even if we lose Bauer and Disco, pitching is our strength. Both starters and relievers.

    Here's one version of a staff for 2021

    1. Gray
    2. Castillo
    3. Mahle
    4. Lorenzen
    5. Miley

    Bullpen
    Iglesias - Closer
    Sims
    Bradley
    Garrett
    Antone

    They'll mix and match for the last couple spots.

    And who are our best 2 prospects? Two starting pitchers who will be in AA (at least) and ready to contribute very soon.

    Hitting, however is another story. We have weaknesses all over the place.
    Bud Selig: "I'm the worst commissioner ever"
    Rob Manfred: "Hold my beer"

  17. #57
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    You never understood the bullpen. I told you the Reds would not make big changes over the off-season because they had done their tweaking during the season. And sure enough, a 1.8 million, 1 year deal to Strop is biggest move they made, and they cast him aside like a wet Kleenex.

    It took 3 weeks for our guys to return to form. The equivalent of the 3rd week in April. Since then they've been one of the best pens in MLB. A few days ago I heard best in the NL and 2nd best in MLB since Aug 13th. They were one of the major reasons for our run.

    Now, let me tell you the process has repeated for 2021. We've made our big bullpen move for 2021 this season when we picked up Bradley.

    Even if we lose Bauer and Disco, pitching is our strength. Both starters and relievers.

    Here's one version of a staff for 2021

    1. Gray
    2. Castillo
    3. Mahle
    4. Lorenzen
    5. Miley

    Bullpen
    Iglesias - Closer
    Sims
    Bradley
    Garrett
    Antone

    They'll mix and match for the last couple spots.

    And who are our best 2 prospects? Two starting pitchers who will be in AA (at least) and ready to contribute very soon.

    Hitting, however is another story. We have weaknesses all over the place.
    If that’s our rotation next year, they’ll be losing 90 games again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    When it comes to crow, I'd like nothing more than to eat Dick's all season long and into the postseason.

  18. #58
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    If that’s our rotation next year, they’ll be losing 90 games again.
    I question the Lorenzen part (my guess is someone else comes in to take that slot - either Lodolo or a signing), but otherwise it's their current rotation minus Bauer. I like Bauer a lot, but if losing him pushes the team to 90+ losses then they were already pretty bad. Like, that's still a losing team even with Bauer.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

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  20. #59
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Picking relievers is largely luck and magic.
    I doubt Reds believe that. I hope they don’t.

  21. #60
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds add Gray, DFA Nate Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I question the Lorenzen part (my guess is someone else comes in to take that slot - either Lodolo or a signing), but otherwise it's their current rotation minus Bauer. I like Bauer a lot, but if losing him pushes the team to 90+ losses then they were already pretty bad. Like, that's still a losing team even with Bauer.
    Yeah my guess is they'll go Anton and Lorenzen back to bullpen. But rotation goes from great to just good without Bauer. Bullpen should again be very good.

    But lord almighty, do we have a lot of offensive questions for 2021 and beyond.......
    Bud Selig: "I'm the worst commissioner ever"
    Rob Manfred: "Hold my beer"


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