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Thread: Tell me...

  1. #46
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    Re: Tell me...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBrick View Post
    Of the long list of aggravating plays in game 1, that one might be the most aggravating for me. That's a scoring play. If Suarez's eyes were lasers, Votto would be dead today. The look on his face towards Votto spoke volumes.

    No need for Votto to go back towards 2nd, simply hold. Even if the 3rd baseman snags it, he's on the ground giving Votto time to get back. Who knows if he scores or not, but I would've liked to have seen the outcome.

    Adding to the aggravation is the fact that Bell burned a pinch runner in the inning before for a runner at first, making him unavailable for the slower Votto in a more realistic situation in the 13th with a runner in scoring position.
    Even though he burned Jankowski...wasnít Garcia still on the bench at that point? Maybe Iím remembering incorrectly. Could pinch run with Garcia, who has the speed to score there and then just shift the infield with moose over, ss to second and Garcia at short. Make your defense better and win 1-0.

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  4. #47
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Tell me...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    IMO, there is no one in the big leagues who can execute that play successfully without the defense making an error. It's a sandlot play that big league defenders handle easily.
    You are right, it's hard to imagine anyone who's been around the game for a long time could be taken by surprise. I only found one video of one from 2007.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  5. #48
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    Re: Tell me...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBrick View Post
    Of the long list of aggravating plays in game 1, that one might be the most aggravating for me. That's a scoring play. If Suarez's eyes were lasers, Votto would be dead today. The look on his face towards Votto spoke volumes.

    No need for Votto to go back towards 2nd, simply hold. Even if the 3rd baseman snags it, he's on the ground giving Votto time to get back. Who knows if he scores or not, but I would've liked to have seen the outcome.

    Adding to the aggravation is the fact that Bell burned a pinch runner in the inning before for a runner at first, making him unavailable for the slower Votto in a more realistic situation in the 13th with a runner in scoring position.
    Me too. And I didn't see Suarez' expression, but I did see Votto's. He rolled his eyes and shook his head and there was no mistaken what he was thinking. It was a "WTH was I doing? I should've scored." Duvall's fielding ability had no bearing on that play. I personally didn't think Joey could score on single anywhere before the play. But when I was watching Duvall running for the ball the clock in my head had Votto half way home before he gloved it.

    When you look at what a 3rd batter is supposed to be, even the 2010-2017 Joey Votto, and compare to what Votto has produced the last 3 seasons, you realize that the Reds have a huge hole in their lineup to fill and with a DH, Votto should probably be batting ninth as kind of a 2nd leadoff man until his contract runs out.

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  7. #49
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Tell me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss-Hog View Post
    I'm listening to C. Trent now on a podcast, and he acknowledges the other criticisms of the players and Bell are valid, in his opinion, but not this one because it was Votto running on Duvall's arm. He fails to mention that Votto went back to second base which made the decision a moot point. My question is do people think Votto scores running on Duvall if he simply holds to make sure the ball isn't caught rather than initially retreating back to second?
    Like many others, when I saw that base hit roll into LF, my brain went through the geometry and I thought he should score fairly easily. And surprised and dismayed when he didn’t. Like I said, I think any competent base runner scores probably 90% of the time. But, thinking about it, it was Votto who is slow, timid, and has bad baserunning instincts. And Duvall has a good and accurate arm. Given it was Votto and seeing how he floundered around 2nd base when the ball was hit, holding him was the right decision.

    I hadn’t thought about it, but that would have been a good time for a pinch runner. I usually think Bell is too substitute happy, But this was one time when it was warranted.

    It was all too bad and a critical play not made. Playoff games turn on such plays and this one did.
    ďHe smote Cutshaw athwart the floating ribs with an inshoot.Ē

  8. #50
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    Re: Tell me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    Like many others, when I saw that base hit roll into LF, my brain went through the geometry and I thought he should score fairly easily. And surprised and dismayed when he didnít. Like I said, I think any competent base runner scores probably 90% of the time. But, thinking about it, it was Votto who is slow, timid, and has bad baserunning instincts. And Duvall has a good and accurate arm. Given it was Votto and seeing how he floundered around 2nd base when the ball was hit, holding him was the right decision.

    I hadnít thought about it, but that would have been a good time for a pinch runner. I usually think Bell is too substitute happy, But this was one time when it was warranted.

    It was all too bad and a critical play not made. Playoff games turn on such plays and this one did.
    Ain't it great. We are stuck paying a guy a quarter mil a year who's only saving grace is he still knows how to get on base but doesn't know what to do when he's there.

  9. #51
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    Re: Tell me...

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    You are right, it's hard to imagine anyone who's been around the game for a long time could be taken by surprise. I only found one video of one from 2007.
    I dunno... Statcast lists AA's speed at 27.9 fps (3rd fastest on the Reds). Add .5 sec for the stationary start and that calculates to 3.37 seconds to cover the 80' from his secondary leadoff to home plate. Take the average POP time (2.01 sec) x 2 and subtract a few tenths to account for the catcher's release time (to make sure the throw is going down to 2nd), and a few more tenths because the SS is upright and moving toward the plate on the throw back home. It's all about the reaction time for AA, but not likely the ball gets down to the vicinity of 2B and back home in 3.37 seconds.

    I think it's not tried very often because the ego at the MLB level does consider this a high school play, but with the right baserunner on 3rd, it should be successful often enough to warrant a try. With the Reds' notorious inability to drive in runs, it's a gamble worth taking at that point in the game.

  10. #52
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    Re: Tell me...

    Quote Originally Posted by onehand View Post
    I dunno... Statcast lists AA's speed at 27.9 fps (3rd fastest on the Reds). Add .5 sec for the stationary start and that calculates to 3.37 seconds to cover the 80' from his secondary leadoff to home plate. Take the average POP time (2.01 sec) x 2 and subtract a few tenths to account for the catcher's release time (to make sure the throw is going down to 2nd), and a few more tenths because the SS is upright and moving toward the plate on the throw back home. It's all about the reaction time for AA, but not likely the ball gets down to the vicinity of 2B and back home in 3.37 seconds.

    I think it's not tried very often because the ego at the MLB level does consider this a high school play, but with the right baserunner on 3rd, it should be successful often enough to warrant a try. With the Reds' notorious inability to drive in runs, it's a gamble worth taking at that point in the game.
    Good stuff. However, I believe that Aquino cannot start to make a move toward home until the ball is out of the catchers hand. There's always a question as to, with 2 outs, that the catcher might give up the steal of 2nd not to take a chance on a run scoring from 3rd. And, when they do it, they sometimes will fake a throw to 2nd to get the guy at 3rd to commit.


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