2020-2021 Off-Season News, Notes and Discussion

[REDREAD]

Honestly, their rotation looks like a problem with what they *already* have, Gray+Castillo and then ?????? already needs a big addition if Bauer isn’t coming back. They need that shortstop solution in addition to everything they already have. Trading Gray to get it is just treading water at best.

Agreed. I'd argue that if the Reds wanted to be relevant next year, Gray is much more important than upgrading SS.
Bottom feed for a veteran SS and keep Gray. If we assume Bauer is gone, they are already a dark horse for the playoffs next year (unless it is expanded again, then maybe they sneak in and get trounced in the first round again)

[JFLegal]

again, this team is in no realistic position where they can have a "rebuild." you can't have a rebuild when you owe almost $200M combined to votto, moose and castellanos over the next 3 seasons. 2024 is when a rebuild could start, because those contracts will be off the books. i still like the castellanos contract. the other two are awful contracts for the reds.

there is a chance the reds could trade castellanos, but no team would want to take votto or moose unless the reds would eat a ton of salary (especially in votto's case).

the whole idea of a rebuild right now is strange, which is another reason i'm not buying it. this team decided to spend a bunch of money going into the 2020 season. not just for 2020, but through 2023. they didn't give moose a big 1-year contract. they gave him 4 years. same for castellanos. they gave shogo 3 years. miley 2. they spent more money than they ever had in an offseason by far, but it wasn't just to go "all in" for 2020, otherwise they would have been trying to find guys they could sign on 1-year deal and not LTCs.

so, the reds spend big heading into 2020, make the playoffs, and now some of you think they are going to "rebuild" starting in 2021? how does that make any sense? and how does that jibe with the plan this front office made less than a year ago? yes, dick williams is gone now, but unless he was the one pulling all the strings, a lot of people who are still in powerful positions with the reds likely signed off on spending big on moose, castellanos and shogo. it was basically the reds saying "we are going to compete this year and beyond." i don't see them scrapping that plan after a winning season in 2020.

find a good veteran starting pitcher and give them a morton-like deal ($15M for 1 year). that will shore up the rotation. sign a SS. that's a team that could definitely compete in the nl central.

[RedTeamGo!]

I don’t think people are giving Antone enough respect.

[Kc61]

again, this team is in no realistic position where they can have a "rebuild." you can't have a rebuild when you owe almost $200M combined to votto, moose and castellanos over the next 3 seasons. 2024 is when a rebuild could start, because those contracts will be off the books. i still like the castellanos contract. the other two are awful contracts for the reds.

there is a chance the reds could trade castellanos, but no team would want to take votto or moose unless the reds would eat a ton of salary (especially in votto's case).

the whole idea of a rebuild right now is strange, which is another reason i'm not buying it. this team decided to spend a bunch of money going into the 2020 season. not just for 2020, but through 2023. they didn't give moose a big 1-year contract. they gave him 4 years. same for castellanos. they gave shogo 3 years. miley 2. they spent more money than they ever had in an offseason by far, but it wasn't just to go "all in" for 2020, otherwise they would have been trying to find guys they could sign on 1-year deal and not LTCs.

so, the reds spend big heading into 2020, make the playoffs, and now some of you think they are going to "rebuild" starting in 2021? how does that make any sense? and how does that jibe with the plan this front office made less than a year ago? yes, dick williams is gone now, but unless he was the one pulling all the strings, a lot of people who are still in powerful positions with the reds likely signed off on spending big on moose, castellanos and shogo. it was basically the reds saying "we are going to compete this year and beyond." i don't see them scrapping that plan after a winning season in 2020.

find a good veteran starting pitcher and give them a morton-like deal ($15M for 1 year). that will shore up the rotation. sign a SS. that's a team that could definitely compete in the nl central.

Agree.

But Reds did increase salary meaningfully last year. Given the COVID year, Reds could decide to cut this off-season, also meaningfully.

They won’t go into a rebuild. But they may try to maintain competitiveness very cheaply. Don’t sign Bauer, shed a couple other contracts if possible. And add back from the bargain store.

I don’t think Reds need another big spending off-season, but if their goal is serious cost cutting, rebuild or no, it will be hard for Reds to improve.

[Mitri]

I don’t think people are giving Antone enough respect.

Antone is getting just the right amount of respect for a guy who's pitched 35 big league innings. Mahle may be the guy not getting enough respect. I like Tejay as a starter okay, but I like him more as a 1-2 inning killer in the pen. And I think I like Lorenzen better as starter to be honest. But the back of the rotation will sort out just fine as long as the Reds don't do something stupid like trade Sonny.

[Ron Madden]

Craig Mish @CraigMish
One of the more fascinating free agents is SP Dan Straily. Compiled 200 K in one of the most dominant KBO seasons ever. Several MLB teams in on him. Reds, Giants, Angels, among them. Will decide between pitching in the US or Korea next week. Per sources.

[WrongVerb]

Shine him up again, and trade him for another high upside arm?

[Kc61]

Need Billy Hamilton in CF if Reds sign Straily.

[Tom Servo]

The smoke about trading Sonny and now bringing Straily back off the scrap heap fills me with a little bit of dread that the Reds could be getting high on their own supply with regards to their pitching genius. A big reason why the pitching improved was because of the talent in a guy like Sonny not because of Spincinnati stuff.

[757690]

The smoke about trading Sonny and now bringing Straily back off the scrap heap fills me with a little bit of dread that the Reds could be getting high on their own supply with regards to their pitching genius. A big reason why the pitching improved was because of the talent in a guy like Sonny not because of Spincinnati stuff.

I agree completely with the last part.

But I don’t buy into the Reds shopping Gray rumors. I may be wrong, but stuff like this happens every winter. Teams spread rumors about players being avaiable, based on conversations that they started.

[Mitri]

My hope with the Sonny rumors is that it’s Krall playing “look at me”, and in reality he’s hoping to trade a less-shiny object.

But it does seem like a new FA signing like Didi is off the table and he may have to get creative filling in
SS, bench and bullpen slots.

[HokieRed]

I can't see any way this team contends without Gray and the addition of at least a solid #3 to replace Bauer. We've heard all this speculative pitching talk for years (e.g. so and so is fixable, will have a big comeback year, underperformed in some different pitching environment, is a 'potential' starter etc) and we know the result. As I see it, we now have Castillo, Gray, a possible #4 in Mahle, a nearly completely untested hopeful #5 in Antone, and a very unreliable lefthander in Miley. The others aren't even worth posting at this point. We need to add a reasonably reliable starter, not trade one.

[Kc61]

The smoke about trading Sonny and now bringing Straily back off the scrap heap fills me with a little bit of dread that the Reds could be getting high on their own supply with regards to their pitching genius. A big reason why the pitching improved was because of the talent in a guy like Sonny not because of Spincinnati stuff.

I agree. But it’s all dollars and cents. Reds hired these coaches in part to “fix” less expensive pitching. We saw it with all the bullpen turnaround candidates last season. This year, with COVID losses, we’re likely to see it even more.

When Gray and Bauer were obtained, the mindset was likely “we must improve” or lose the fan base. Now, it’s likely “let’s try to stay competitive, but we’re bargain shoppers again. Rely on the coaches.”

[Bourgeois Zee]

I can't see any way this team contends without Gray and the addition of at least a solid #3 to replace Bauer. We've heard all this speculative pitching talk for years (e.g. so and so is fixable, will have a big comeback year, underperformed in some different pitching environment, is a 'potential' starter etc) and we know the result. As I see it, we now have Castillo, Gray, a possible #4 in Mahle, a nearly completely untested hopeful #5 in Antone, and a very unreliable lefthander in Miley. The others aren't even worth posting at this point. We need to add a reasonably reliable starter, not trade one.

I suspect they can compete without Bauer, but they'll need the rest of the staff to stay healthy and take a step forward. That includes Gray.

I do wonder how much of the Gray rumors has to do with the medicals. He was hurt last season (right mid-back strain)-- perhaps they found something that made them worry?

[757690]

John Fay is a retiring.

https://twitter.com/enqsports/status...394883584?s=12