The only thing they'd contend for without Bauer and Gray is the worst record in baseball. If Gray is dealt, safe to say the Reds aren't adding anything of significance and are going to try to reduce payroll elsewhere too.Originally Posted by HokieRed
Is it too much to ask for one of my favorite teams to have a likable owner that simply wants to win and is willing to do whatever it takes?
REDREAD (11-29-2020)
To be honest, this is how the Reds got into their current situation. Cast went crazy with contracts around 2012, doing whatever it takes to win.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
Disagree. He handed out contracts to his personal favorite guys. If he was willing to do whatever it takes to win, he would’ve let Jocketty acquire a left fielder in 2013, for example.
Votto's contract was all about the return he'd get for the investment. He knew it would work out in the long run financially. It did. They'll be making money off him for eternity.
The Phillips contract was terrible the second details were released. He liked Phillips and wanted him around long term. Barry Larkin deal Part II.
I want an owner that cares about winning and doesn't allow personal feelings and other non-baseball factors to seep into baseball operations. Some owners are good at that, others aren't.
Edit: If he was willing to do whatever it takes, he'd have surrounded Votto with FA talent when he was in his prime. He didn't.
Last edited by Coopdaddy67; 11-28-2020 at 04:09 PM.
Wonderful Monds (11-28-2020)
I disagree that he handed out contracts to his favorite guys. I believe he honestly thought that if order for the Reds to compete with the Cardinals they needed to lockup their key players. The players he locked up were the best on the team whose contracts were up, Votto, Phillip’s and Bailey. Cueto was coming off an injury filled season, otherwise, he likely would have gotten Bailey’s extension.
The Reds couldn’t add a LF in 2013 because of these contracts. These contracts were not smart, but I do believe that Cast thought they were, and were what was needed in order to compete long term with the Cardinals.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
That’s where I disagree further. I actually think any team in baseball is more than capable of paying their players the way the Reds did those handful of years. They could’ve definitely afforded to trade for a replacement once Ludwick got injured. But they didn’t, because an outside player wasn’t already one of Bob’s guys.
Or as mentioned above, they were more than capable of adding some free agents during Votto’s prime. They never even tried.
That’s what winning at all costs means to me.
bm1475 (11-28-2020)
I think we are both trying to read Bob Castellini’s mind, so not much to discuss. I think he thought he was doing all he could, even though it seemed like there was more he could do. But only he know’s the truth.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
John Fay is retiring again. I know he only came back the last time because his wife got cancer. Hopefully, all is well there now.
757690 (11-29-2020),marcshoe (11-29-2020),Roy Tucker (11-29-2020)
Yea, this whole thing has me worried on a couple fronts.
On one hand, The Reds could be totally gearing up to cheap out and blame covid for an asset sell off.
On the other hand, they really could be starting to buy their own hype and have deluded themselves into thinking they’re somehow a reasonable facsimile of The Indians and can afford to regularly trade away their top pitching assets.
I don’t like either scenario. Hopefully it’s all just idle speculation.
Phil Castellini puts the FUN in Trust Fund.
REDREAD (11-29-2020),Wonderful Monds (11-29-2020)
An article on The Athletic details the struggles of one of the Reds top picks (Nick Howard) and makes it easy to understand why the Reds have had such a difficult time developing pitching. Hopefully this is behind the team with the addition of Kyle Boddy.
A snippet from the article is below but there is a lot more to the story that you should read.
https://theathletic.com/2217438/2020...-he-could-not/
During his son’s first big-league spring training, Dale Howard would often talk to Nick via phone. This was normal. The son often leaned on his father for advice both in life and in baseball, and the father would provide it because that’s what good fathers do.
Given the fragility of pitching, Dale would often ask how his son’s right arm felt. Most of the time, the response had been, “Great!”
But the response started to change.
“You’d get the, ‘Well, it’s all right,’” Dale said.
Dale had coached his son’s youth league teams. He knew Nick — who played shortstop and pitched because of his athletic throwing motion — would often play through pain. So as the responses shifted, Dale would handicap how bad the pain actually was.
“I knew it was probably killing him,” Dale said.
The conversations continued, and Nick grew more honest. He had been working with Reds coaches on an adjustment to his arm slot, and everything had gone awry. His shoulder had started to flare up, which was affecting his pitching results and even his frame of mind.
“I don’t want to tell them I’m hurt because then I lose the opportunity,” he would tell his dad.
Dale talked his son through the long-term effects, but Nick kept pitching through the pain. Once the spring training in 2015 ended, Howard was assigned to High-A Daytona Beach. He struggled mightily. In 2014, he walked just 11 batters in 33 2/3 innings. In 2015, he walked 50 batters in 38 innings and posted a 6.63 ERA. The shoulder pain persisted, and an MRI showed a slight superior labrum anterior and posterior tear, so Howard decided to rehab his arm then shut things down at the end of 2015.
He returned in 2016, but the vicious physical and mental cycle continued to take a toll. His arm hurt. He couldn’t throw a strike or anything close to one. Thinking about what was happening only made it worse.
“Subconsciously, my confidence was deteriorating and things really got bad,” Howard said. “I’ll never really know if it was mental or physical with what happened with my control or command.”
The worst thing for a parent is seeing their children unhappy, and that’s the point Dale was at with Nick. Finally, the Howard family made the executive decision for Nick to get his shoulder checked out by the Reds’ team doctors. An MRI showed the tear had worsened. Essentially, Howard’s labrum was torn at the top both in the front and back of where it attaches to the biceps tendon. It required SLAP lesion repair surgery and months of rehab, the latter of which brought along even more problems.
The former shortstop whose athletic throwing motion led him to pitch no longer was throwing athletically. Everything felt forced. Robotic, even.
Howard arrived at home that offseason and Dale offered to play catch. Dad thought the positivity might help, but even in a light catch from 30 feet away, Nick was throwing the ball over his head.
“I was like, ‘Whoa,’” Dale said. “It was very, very difficult. Very difficult.”
Last edited by paulrichjr; 11-29-2020 at 07:57 PM.
Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.
RED VAN HOT (11-30-2020),RedsfaninMT (12-13-2020),Revering4Blue (11-30-2020),Ron Madden (11-29-2020)
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Free-agent left-hander Mike Minor in agreement with Royals, pending physical, sources tell The Athletic.
This will be Minor’s second stint with KC, if he passes physical. He signed a two-year, $7.25M free-agent deal with the team in 2016 while recovering from shoulder surgery. Did not pitch in majors in ‘16, but had 2.55 ERA in 77 2/3 relief innings in ‘17. Comfortable spot for him.
Sources confirm: Minor agreement with Royals is for two years.
Last edited by Ron Madden; 11-29-2020 at 11:50 PM.
at least the reds don't have to worry about that terrible soccer team in town (futbol club cincinnati?) stealing fans away like people predicted a few years ago. they are the worst soccer team in the mediocre-at-best MLS.
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
Left-handed starter Mike Minor and the Kansas City Royals are in agreement on a multiyear deal that is pending a physical, sources tell ESPN. @Ken_Rosenthal had the agreement first.
8:37pm · 29 Nov 2020
Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. -- Carl Sagan (Pale Blue Dot)
Jon Morosi
@jonmorosi
Sources: #Reds are prioritizing the addition of one starting shortstop and are pursuing multiple options to address that need: Francisco Lindor and Trevor Story in trade; Marcus Semien, Andrelton Simmons, and Didi Gregorius via free agency. @MLBNetwork @MLB
8:03am · 30 Nov 2020
Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. -- Carl Sagan (Pale Blue Dot)
Well that's horrible.
I wonder if that's just a one off thing that happens all the time and sucked for Nick Howard individually. I question changing up the thing that got your guy drafted in the first round, but I'm not a pitching coach.
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