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Thread: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

  1. #541
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Here's a good article from 2018 about the Homie:

    https://www.theringer.com/nba-playof...rs-dario-saric
    Saric is a real professional, and plays winning basketball. But at the same time, when the Sixers traded him to the Twolves, he wasn’t happy about it, and he sulked a little bit. I think he is competitive, hates losing, and loves playoff ball. He is also from the Croatian coast, so all these snow cities must bother him. Phoenix is a good fit, as long as they win.

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  4. #542
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    The Wood deal has me thinking the Rockets are keeping Harden and Russ. Add in a version of Boogie with something left in his tank and that's a tough team.
    I agree they may keep them, but will they be focused....or will there be sulking? If they are focused on winning, then a healthy Cousins can help them and is unlikely to be an issue. My concern would be there were some reports that it is "personal" and there are "feelings" involved in Harden and Westbrook's desire to exit which could make it more difficult to be focused on winning.
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    Saric is a real professional, and plays winning basketball. But at the same time, when the Sixers traded him to the Twolves, he wasn’t happy about it, and he sulked a little bit. I think he is competitive, hates losing, and loves playoff ball. He is also from the Croatian coast, so all these snow cities must bother him. Phoenix is a good fit, as long as they win.
    Yeah, most of my view and opinion of him was based on what I recently witnessed of him in both Minnesota and Phoenix...a man uninterested on most nights.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    When asked about the need for a backup point guard, Olshey was emphatic: “Anfernee Simons is the backup point guard.”


    Oh-kay.

    Couldn't use the BE as it would put us into the luxury tax for the 2nd year in a row with a hefty penalty, and he wanted roster flexiblity with a 14-player squad. Also said Hood is ready to go on Opening Night and Zach is scheduled to be ready 3-4 weeks later.

    No backup PG last season was ugly.
    No idea why they brought Melo back instead of a veteran PG.

    Can anyone imagine a scenario where this ends well for Melo?

    In Olshey's presser, he said they talked to Melo about coming off the bench and playing a complementary role. He didn't say he was gung-ho, he said he thought Melo was coming around to it. With Covington, Hood, Collins, Derrick Jones Jr., Gary Trent Jr. and even Harry Giles ready to see minutes at the 3 and 4, I fail to see where Melo's getting legitimate tiime. Stotts will shoehorn him in, but I have no idea how you play 36-year-old Melo over some of those guys. I suspect Dame or C.J. made a request to bring Melo back. He just makes no sense for this roster, especially when you're staring at Simons trying to run the second unit for 5-10 minutes a night.

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    I suppose I could couch every comment with an "in my opinion," but that'd make my long posts even longer. Just assume everything I say is an opinion. I may absolutely be wrong.

    That said, Smith, at his best, is a 15 - 20 mpg guy playing behind Ayton. And that assumes the Suns aren't going to play Saric any at center, a lineup that was very effective in the bubble last season. They're not trading Ayton, and they're not going to cut his minutes either. Now, maybe he can play PF, you say. Fair enough. If he can, he'll have to beat out Saric (who they just paid relatively big money), Jae Crowder (who they also just paid relatively big money), and Cam Johnson (who handled the backup PF spot incredibly well in the bubble). That's a lot to overcome for a rookie on a team that's looking to push for a playoff spot.

    Vassell is nearly going to double Smith's minutes as a backup to DeRozan and Derek White. More than that, the Spurs are focused largely on developing their young guys. He's going to get minutes to show what he can do.

    Boston is in the middle of a championship run, but Nesmith is a two-position backup. He's going to get some run behind Smart at 2G and Brown at SF, not because he's a better player, but because he has a spot on the Celtics that's nearly perfect for his skillset-- shooting from distance. (He doesn't even have to be all that good defensively, rebound, or dribble. Just shoot.)

    Bey will probably start from the get-go in Detroit. If he's not a starter, he's going to get starter minutes soon thereafter. And they're going to push him to score. They're another team that's in development mode. He's going to get his minutes to show his mettle.

    Secondly, Smith was about a 10 spot overdraft. Even if he's who the Suns wanted (and it's apparent he was), we know from reports that Boston was willing to trade up. We know that Minnesota was looking to trade up too. Both had picks closer to Smith's range. Phoenix had the opportunity to grab another asset instead of picking Smith where they did.

    And hey, I may be wrong. This wouldn't be the first time, for sure. But what's the payout for Smith? Is it similar to Johnson, as a 10-year backup? If so, that's a pretty low bar for the 10th pick, IMO. Maybe Phoenix has found a sneaky good plan the last two seasons and is building around the edges. I'd argue with picks as high as they've got, that's not a great way to build a team.
    If you think Smith is going to have a hard time getting minutes behind Ayton, Saric and Crowder, I'm not sure where you see Bey fitting in. He's a carbon copy of Crowder. Same goes with Vassell and Nesmith. I doubt they leap Mikal Bridges for minutes, nor Cam Johnson. I suppose they could spell Booker for a few minutes, but I'm not sure you're really worrying about who's behind your young superstar. I'd imagine that's pretty low on the priority list.

    Also, I presume most good NBA teams aren't drafting for immediate roster fit (especially down the draft, especially in this draft). I fail to see how any of these dudes are sure things, and frankly I'd put them all in the same bucket. They're all upside guys that'll have to prove themselves in the NBA. But Jalen Smith is a high pedigree (16 RSCI) legit big who went for 16, 10 and 2.5 blocks a night in a good basketball conference. He shot 37% from three and posted a TS% of 63. I mean, what's not to like, other than where Sam Vecenie or Kevin O'Connor slotted him.

    It's likely semantics, and I'm cool with others' opinions. I just thought it was strange how confidently you couched your Smith take. I mean he could be a dud, but it's not like he's vastly different potential wise than the guys you named.
    Last edited by BillDoran; 11-24-2020 at 01:42 PM.

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    No idea why they brought Melo back instead of a veteran PG.

    Can anyone imagine a scenario where this ends well for Melo?

    In Olshey's presser, he said they talked to Melo about coming off the bench and playing a complementary role. He didn't say he was gung-ho, he said he thought Melo was coming around to it. With Covington, Hood, Collins, Derrick Jones Jr., Gary Trent Jr. and even Harry Giles ready to see minutes at the 3 and 4, I fail to see where Melo's getting legitimate tiime. Stotts will shoehorn him in, but I have no idea how you play 36-year-old Melo over some of those guys. I suspect Dame or C.J. made a request to bring Melo back. He just makes no sense for this roster, especially when you're staring at Simons trying to run the second unit for 5-10 minutes a night.
    Maybe this helps clear it up:

    Listening to Olshey talk about it yesterday, he was explicit that C.J. is the backup PG. He stated that C.J. is a Top-2 SG in the league and that his numbers/metrics back up that he's a Top-14 PG in the league when Dame has missed games and C.J. has to take over. That he and Dame only spend 24 minutes on the floor together and they stagger 12 minutes a piece on the bench. When Dame is on the floor he's the PG. When he isn't C.J. is the PG. That's 48 minutes. He also said that the game is different and there isn't a need for an Earl Watson type of 3rd PG anymore. Simons is the emergency PG and mopup PG.

    Regarding Melo, he, Stotts and the team loves what he brings to the floor as a positive influence to everyone, that he's an asset at crunchtime because he can hit a big shot giving Stotts another weapon to have confidence in for that situation, there are a ton of back-to-backs this season and many of the bigs are coming off of injuries. Melo won't play much of the back-to-backs,...Hood and Zach will have to be monitored with them, while Nurk and Kanter will have their own monitoring to do regarding them, and Giles and Nurk and Zach have spent more time injured than healthy (he didn't say that, but he did say he was concerned about not having enough bigs. Minutes for everyone is never an issue. Never ever. These things always work themselves out and injuries definitely will happen.

    So, that's it.

    The roster is set. Let the games begin.

    When I quoted that Olshey said, "Simons is our backup PG", I was quoting an article from Blazersedge who said this is what he said in the presser. I never watched the presser (that you referenced, too). I did listen to him directly last night and he couldn't be more clear about it. Simons is an emergency PG. C.J. is the backup PG. There wasn't anyone available who would be better than C.J. as the backup PG. His best two players are Guards. He was very concerned about not having enough bigs to get through an entire season and one of this type coming up.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 11-24-2020 at 04:42 PM.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Maybe this helps clear it up:

    Listening to Olshey talk about it yesterday, he was explicit that C.J. is the backup PG. He stated that C.J. is a Top-2 SG in the league and that his numbers/metrics back up that he's a Top-14 PG in the league when Dame has missed games and C.J. has to take over. That he and Dame only spend 24 minutes on the floor together and they stagger 12 minutes a piece on the bench. When Dame is on the floor he's the PG. When he isn't C.J. is the PG. That's 48 minutes. He also said that the game is different and there isn't a need for an Earl Watson type of 3rd PG anymore. Simons is the emergency PG and mopup PG.

    Regarding Melo, he, Stotts and the team loves what he brings to the floor as a positive influence to everyone, that he's an asset at crunchtime because he can hit a big shot giving Stotts another weapon to have confidence in for that situation, there are a ton of back-to-backs this season and many of the bigs are coming off of injuries. Melo won't play much of the back-to-backs,...Hood and Zach will have to be monitored with them, while Nurk and Kanter will have their own monitoring to do regarding them, and Giles and Nurk and Zach have spent more time injured than healthy (he didn't say that, but he did say he was concerned about not having enough bigs. Minutes for everyone is never an issue. Never ever. These things always work themselves out and injuries definitely will happen.

    So, that's it.

    The roster is set. Let the games begin.
    Is your defensive scheme the Vanterpool deny space defense or has Tibbets set up a new scheme? I ask this because Vanterpool’s scheme seemed to be effective, players picked it up quickly (most of them), and it was a scheme that didn’t require individual aptitude (McCollum, layman, Connaught on all were good defenders in the scheme, and they were ineffective when they were one on one).
    Vanterpool is desperate to be a head coach, by the way. I think the Wolves should give him a shot, soon.
    Last edited by Betterread; 11-24-2020 at 04:44 PM.

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    Is your defensive scheme the Vanterpool deny space defense or has Tibbets set up a new scheme?
    That was asked. Olshey said Stotts was working on adjusting the defensive schemes (certainly Vanterpool is a huge influence there), but what the team needed most was better defensive players, comparing RoCo and Derrick Jones to Aminu and Harkless. With Trent, Nurk and Zach all Defensive forces, and Giles helping out when we go against athletic bigs, he feels that they maximized what they could do in the offseason to fix the Defensive issues on the team while staying under the luxury tax, and keeping a balance between the next wave of talent (Zach, Trent, Derrick Jones, Little, Simons, Giles) and the desire to win now., while also keeping contracts at the length of Nurk's remaining years of two years for flexibility purposes in this ever-changing environment.

    With better personnel, it definitely opens up what Stotts can do. Ideally, you want to play it the way Kerr and Golden State play it defensively, switching constantly with pressure on the ball and busy hands in the passing lanes. Stotts has always preferred not switching, but that could be because of always having two Guards of shorter stature and less lateral movement. With this personnel, there should be more switching. Clearly Melo is a liability, but he'll probably be paired with a Center and opposite forward more athletic in a Melo/Nurk/Roco line. Kanter will be paired with a Roco/Kanter/Jones or Trent line. I really have to wait to watch the experimenting to see what works.

    Stotts will probably stick with finding pairs of bigs who work well together and stick with them on the floor together.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 11-24-2020 at 05:16 PM.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    That whisper you here is Hassan Whiteside's phone.

    I do wish him well. He did everything the right way while he was here.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Maybe this helps clear it up:

    Listening to Olshey talk about it yesterday, he was explicit that C.J. is the backup PG. He stated that C.J. is a Top-2 SG in the league and that his numbers/metrics back up that he's a Top-14 PG in the league when Dame has missed games and C.J. has to take over. That he and Dame only spend 24 minutes on the floor together and they stagger 12 minutes a piece on the bench. When Dame is on the floor he's the PG. When he isn't C.J. is the PG. That's 48 minutes. He also said that the game is different and there isn't a need for an Earl Watson type of 3rd PG anymore. Simons is the emergency PG and mopup PG.

    Regarding Melo, he, Stotts and the team loves what he brings to the floor as a positive influence to everyone, that he's an asset at crunchtime because he can hit a big shot giving Stotts another weapon to have confidence in for that situation, there are a ton of back-to-backs this season and many of the bigs are coming off of injuries. Melo won't play much of the back-to-backs,...Hood and Zach will have to be monitored with them, while Nurk and Kanter will have their own monitoring to do regarding them, and Giles and Nurk and Zach have spent more time injured than healthy (he didn't say that, but he did say he was concerned about not having enough bigs. Minutes for everyone is never an issue. Never ever. These things always work themselves out and injuries definitely will happen.

    So, that's it.

    The roster is set. Let the games begin.

    When I quoted that Olshey said, "Simons is our backup PG", I was quoting an article from Blazersedge who said this is what he said in the presser. I never watched the presser (that you referenced, too). I did listen to him directly last night and he couldn't be more clear about it. Simons is an emergency PG. C.J. is the backup PG. There wasn't anyone available who would be better than C.J. as the backup PG. His best two players are Guards. He was very concerned about not having enough bigs to get through an entire season and one of this type coming up.
    Regarding Simons, hard to take Olshey at his word here. Simons played 20.7 mpg during the regular season (across 70 games) and 20.5 mpg in the playoffs (only four games). The staggering makes some sense in theory, but I've never really seen it play out that way on the floor. This also presumes both Lillard and McCollum, both consistently among the NBA leaders in minutes played, will stay healthy for the entirety of the season. If that's not the case, now we're relying on a guy with a 9.0 PER to play serious, pivotal minutes on a team that's taking it's playoff aspirations very seriously.

    On Melo, again, I'll buy it when I see it. He was a reasonably good fit last year, given all the injuries. But the dude still clearly wants minutes and shots. Everybody is going to say the right things in the offseason, but just wait until Melo plays sparingly for a three-game stretch. There's a reason the Rockets bailed on him after 10 games. There's a reason he was available when the Blazers wing spot was decimated. Nobody's going to openly trash Melo or his considerable ego. He may be liked in the locker room (and I suspect players advocated for him in OKC and Houston), but he's going to be a pain for Stotts and the front office. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll believe Melo's a good soldier when I see him vigorously cheering his teammates on while logging consecutive DNP - Coach's Decision.

    Press conference's are press conferences. Of course, Olshey's going to put a positive spin on everything. I think the Blazers got better this offseason. I don't buy that they improved markedly or are ready to compete with the top tier in the West. Lots of issues, and that's evident when they're pumping up a guy like Derrick Jones Jr., a guy who had a hard time getting off the bench for the Heat in the playoffs.
    Last edited by BillDoran; 11-24-2020 at 05:37 PM.

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    Saric is a real professional, and plays winning basketball. But at the same time, when the Sixers traded him to the Twolves, he wasn’t happy about it, and he sulked a little bit. I think he is competitive, hates losing, and loves playoff ball. He is also from the Croatian coast, so all these snow cities must bother him. Phoenix is a good fit, as long as they win.
    If he wasn't happy about it, that might have been tied to the fact that he went from playing productive starters minutes with a playoff team to coming off the bench for a team going nowhere whose coach was inexplicably giving Saric' minutes to Taj-freakin-Gibson.

    That would tick me off too.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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    --Ted Williams

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    That whisper you here is Hassan Whiteside's phone.

    I do wish him well. He did everything the right way while he was here.
    While I do not disagree with the many issues in the modern game with the athletic traditional Center like Whiteside and Dwight, I do think we are at the point where they are probably underrated by teams because the market often treats them as if they have no value, but in certain matchups they still have value.
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    If he wasn't happy about it, that might have been tied to the fact that he went from playing productive starters minutes with a playoff team to coming off the bench for a team going nowhere whose coach was inexplicably giving Saric' minutes to Taj-freakin-Gibson.

    That would tick me off too.
    You’re right on target from the talent analysis. Thibs was awful: Saric is clearly more skilled that Taj. Thibs is now coach of the Knicks, his dream job as a New Yorker. I am confident he will not turn things around and he will have an aneurysm and will retire from coaching.
    As for Saric, If Philly liked him that much, why did they trade him? I think they betrayed him. He was a European Star, and they courted him big time to get more talent. Who knows what they promised him, and then reneged.

    That would tick me off, too.
    Last edited by Betterread; 11-24-2020 at 10:48 PM.

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    You’re right on target from the talent analysis. Thibs was awful: Saric is clearly more skilled that Taj. Thibs is now coach of the Knicks, his dream job as a New Yorker. I am confident he will not turn things around and he will have an aneurysm and will retire from coaching.
    As for Saric, If Philly liked him that much, why did they trade him? I think they betrayed him. He was a European Star, and they courted him big time to get more talent. Who knows what they promised him, and then reneged.

    That would tick me off, too.
    Saric was a draft-and-stash. The Sixers wanted to get him to the States, but didn't "court" him as much as they rescued him. Go read the article I posted earlier and see what he says about the Euroleague. The Sixers dealt him for the same reason a team deals any player- to acquire talent. Saric didn't take any shots at the organization on the way out. He expressed appreciation. He wasn't disgruntled at all until he got to experience the completely dysfunctional T-Wolves organization.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Saric was a draft-and-stash. The Sixers wanted to get him to the States, but didn't "court" him as much as they rescued him. Go read the article I posted earlier and see what he says about the Euroleague. The Sixers dealt him for the same reason a team deals any player- to acquire talent. Saric didn't take any shots at the organization on the way out. He expressed appreciation. He wasn't disgruntled at all until he got to experience the completely dysfunctional T-Wolves organization.
    Nice. The SoDakHammer. You left that Midwest nice behind you. Have fun explaining that Carson Wentz sucks ‘cause he’s from NoDak, NOT SoDak.
    footnote: Top Seeded Philly just lost got destroyed by NE in the first round of the MLS playoffs. No bragging rights in soccer this year. Maybe the Sixers can recapture past glory in ‘21. I doubt it.
    Last edited by Betterread; 11-24-2020 at 11:57 PM.


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