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Thread: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

  1. #31
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    I'd rather have Jeff Van Gundy.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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  4. #32
    Member Rojo Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    New Orleans badly needs Zion to reach the star level that would allow them to enter the market for big stars to create a big 2 or big 3. He needs to get to the point other players want to come to NO to play with him. It doesn't need to happen this year necessarily but it needs to happen sooner than later. The rumblings/allegations of Duke paying for his services lands me on the "he'll go to a better team and market" side of the fence. Especially if New Orleans handles him like they did Anthony Davis.

  5. #33
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo Rijo View Post
    New Orleans badly needs Zion to reach the star level that would allow them to enter the market for big stars to create a big 2 or big 3. He needs to get to the point other players want to come to NO to play with him. It doesn't need to happen this year necessarily but it needs to happen sooner than later. The rumblings/allegations of Duke paying for his services lands me on the "he'll go to a better team and market" side of the fence. Especially if New Orleans handles him like they did Anthony Davis.
    NOLA has more time than that, IMO, but yeah, Zion is probably going to be looking for the most coin. (And good on him for that, btw.)

    That team just doesn't work very well as constructed.

    Ingram needs to play PF, not SF. (Too slow to be a good defender there, IMO. Four years into his career, the best defensive rating he's had in 109.) With Zion there, he's not an ideal fit.
    Holiday and Reddick are older, veteran types. If NOLA were closer, I could see them as important cogs, but they just finished 13th in the West and absolutely tanked in the bubble.
    Ball is, simply, a second-division starter, at best. Too slow, too much of an issue finishing, shooting free throws, and defending to make a foundation piece.

    I'm wondering if Milwaukee and NOLA can work out a deal wherein NOLA deals Redick, Ball, Holiday, and Ingram for Middleton, Bledsoe, and the Buck first rounder in 2022 (completely unprotected) and make it work. That would seem a good deal for the Bucks and would net Middleton as an elite wing and Bledsoe as an acceptable PG placeholder. It's a gamble, assuming Milwaukee won't re-sign Giannis, but a good one, IMO. It'd certainly be a heck of a chip.

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  7. #34
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Top Five Draft Prospects Who'll Out-Earn Their Draft Slot
    (In order of the spot they'll go in the draft)

    Tyrese Haliburton
    Draft Slot: 5 - 10
    Why He's Good: He does everything well, and he doesn't beat himself. When prospects come into the league, most take years to find the balance between aggressiveness and humility they need in order to become successful. Haliburton already has that feel. He just refuses to beat himself. Length, solid shooting numbers (though his stroke is u g l y), phenomenal rebounding despite a slight frame, and an exceptional ball handler, Haliburton is, on the low end, already a rotation piece. With more weight and a good system, he has a real chance to be a 3-and-D distributor and scorer.
    Upside Comp: Combo guard Shawn Marion

    Onyeka Okongwu, PF/C
    Draft Slot: Mid-lottery
    Why He's Good: In a word, bounce. And length. And quickness. And intelligence. Okay, that's four words. He can guard 1 - 5 and not embarrass himself. He is a willing and able passer with a solid handle and a consistent jumper out to 15. His free throw form looks good too. At his floor, Okongwu is going to help the team who drafts him-- and he has monster upside in today's game. At his best, he can be a poor man's Bam Adebayo. First-division starter at either PF or C (depending on his range).

    Saddiq Bey
    Draft Slot: Low lottery
    Why He's Good: Bey defends. Bey shoots. He does both at an exceptional level. He's played in tough environments and won. He's got deep range and a nice little teardrop when he (rarely) decides to drive. His lack of first-step explosiveness may be a Villanova thing-- collecting oneself before making a move is very Jay Wright. He's probably not an All-Star, but he will be a first-division starter for years. Think Joe Harris or Duncan Robinson with D.

    Jahmius Ramsey
    Draft Slot: Late first round
    Why He's Good: He's another who has multiple carrying skills. Super-talented high schooler who worked hard in college-- that's a good mix and presages success in the NBA even as a role player. And that's Ramsey's wheelhouse, IMO. He's not going to be a star, but he will be a rotational piece that has years of double figure scoring and solid defense. He could outplay his Justin Holiday comp, but this feels like a good one.

    Desmond Bane
    Draft Slot: Early second round
    Why He's Good: Bane's a freight train who can shoot and handle. He's also 6'6" (but with short arms). He finishes in contact and can shoot from deep. Smart player. (That's the theme for this class, seemingly, or perhaps I'm a sucker for basketball IQ.) He's ready now-- and a bit older. Out of all the guys on the list, he's the deepest sleeper and probably the one who I like the most to contribute something. In his best of all worlds, Bane's a secondary scorer and glue guy who starts (and wins championships) on great teams. I've got Danny Green as a comp but that feels low.

    Deep Sleepers:
    Isaiah Joe
    Shooters who can shoot are valuable no matter their other skills. Joe's a bucket-getter.

    Jordan Nwora
    See comment above. Nwora's played against the toughest schedule in the game and found success.

    Nick Richards
    Late to the game, Richards has all the tools and profiles as a rim-running shot blocker. But he has nice shooting form and might end up as a Dwayne Dedmond type-- if he doesn't let his brain get in the way.

    Paul Reed
    Reed strikes me as a poor man's Bobby Portis without the cray-cray. He might be more than that. Elite rebounder.

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  9. #35
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    A strong case can be made Okongwu at #1.
    Last edited by M2; 10-23-2020 at 04:00 PM.
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  10. #36
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    A strong case can be made Ogungwu at #1.
    If I were the Wolves (and couldn't convince another team to make a deal), that's who I'd pick. (Golden State at two as well, for that matter.)

    I think he's the most likely All-Star out of all those who can be drafted this season.

    Okongwu, Wiseman, Bey, Nesmith, Edwards, and either Hayes or Kira Lewis, in that order.

    (Speaking of, I'd have had Kira Lewis on my Sleeper Team if I didn't think he'd get drafted way earlier than anyone currently thinks. He's young, productive, and talented.)
    Last edited by Bourgeois Zee; 10-23-2020 at 11:27 AM.

  11. #37
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Top Five Radioactive Prospects
    (In order of where they'll go in the draft)

    Anthony Edwards
    A poor man's Andrew Wiggins without the defensive acumen or the jump shot. He takes way too many long twos, has a shaky handle, and isn't all that great of a passer. He's also got a questionable motor. Edwards might outgrow all of that and become a taller Spider Mitchell, but the NBA is strewn with ultra-athletic would-be dominant ball handlers who can't shoot.

    LaMelo Ball
    He is, IMO, the very definition of a coach killer. Too slight to be of any use on the defensive end, he tries to make the flashy play by anticipating lazy passes and deflecting ball handlers as they pass him by. He can't do that in the NBA-- they'll absolutely eat him up. Offensively, he's a great passer, but where does he play? He can't shoot. At all. And worse, his mechanics will need a complete overhaul before he can do much of anything beyond dribble into the lane and put up a one-handed set shot from 10 feet that might go in 35% of the time. Stay. Far. Away.

    Isaac Okoro
    Phenomenal defensive player. He plays hard too. But that shot is broken. He's MKG in a slightly more mobile package. He can absolutely make a living as a defense savant. If he improves his mechanics, he might be good enough to start. But that's a long way away. With a pick in the top 10, he makes no sense.

    Precious Achiuwa
    This is all about value. What Achiuwa offers can be found at the bottom of the second round and in free agency after the draft. Achiuwa is an incredible athlete. He's also a kind of a dinosaur. He'll be a solid defender (though he's a bit of a tweener) and has the tools to be better than that. But he's limited offensively. Shaky handle. Shaky jumper. He's going to be a rotation piece, for at least a few years.

    Anyone from Duke
    I can't decide which Duke player I like least: Vernon Carey, Tre Jones, or Cassius Stanley. They're all old school in a new school game. (Similar to many on this list, in fact.) Carey's a beefy low-post scorer like his fellow Dukie, Okafor. Okaforget'em. Cassius Stanley looks like Cam Reddish's smaller, less athletic cousin. And Jones is a Duke PG. 'Nuff said.

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  13. #38
    Thanks a lot, Bowie Kuhn Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    A strong case can be made Ogungwu at #1.
    Agreed.

    If there were ever an NBA draft in which it's likely best to ignore 1st round draft metrics such as value/draft position and upside and focus on fit/culture, this would seem to be it.
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    If I were the Wolves (and couldn't convince another team to make a deal), that's who I'd pick. (Golden State at two as well, for that matter.)

    I think he's the most likely All-Star out of all those who can be drafted this season.

    Okongwu, Wiseman, Bey, Nesmith, Edwards, and either Hayes or Kira Lewis, in that order.

    (Speaking of, I'd have had Kira Lewis on my Sleeper Team if I didn't think he'd get drafted way earlier than anyone currently thinks. He's young, productive, and talented.)
    Kira Lewis Jr. may be the fastest end-to-end player in the draft. I'll be surprised if he lasts past Orlando's pick at 15. If the Magic nab him, they may be one of the most improved teams next season. While I realize that Issac is a huge loss, Aminu should return, and Chuma Okeke - last year's 1st rounder - is scheduled to make his debut.
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  16. #40
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Top Five Radioactive Prospects
    (In order of where they'll go in the draft)

    Anthony Edwards
    A poor man's Andrew Wiggins without the defensive acumen or the jump shot. He takes way too many long twos, has a shaky handle, and isn't all that great of a passer. He's also got a questionable motor. Edwards might outgrow all of that and become a taller Spider Mitchell, but the NBA is strewn with ultra-athletic would-be dominant ball handlers who can't shoot.

    LaMelo Ball
    He is, IMO, the very definition of a coach killer. Too slight to be of any use on the defensive end, he tries to make the flashy play by anticipating lazy passes and deflecting ball handlers as they pass him by. He can't do that in the NBA-- they'll absolutely eat him up. Offensively, he's a great passer, but where does he play? He can't shoot. At all. And worse, his mechanics will need a complete overhaul before he can do much of anything beyond dribble into the lane and put up a one-handed set shot from 10 feet that might go in 35% of the time. Stay. Far. Away.

    Isaac Okoro
    Phenomenal defensive player. He plays hard too. But that shot is broken. He's MKG in a slightly more mobile package. He can absolutely make a living as a defense savant. If he improves his mechanics, he might be good enough to start. But that's a long way away. With a pick in the top 10, he makes no sense.

    Precious Achiuwa
    This is all about value. What Achiuwa offers can be found at the bottom of the second round and in free agency after the draft. Achiuwa is an incredible athlete. He's also a kind of a dinosaur. He'll be a solid defender (though he's a bit of a tweener) and has the tools to be better than that. But he's limited offensively. Shaky handle. Shaky jumper. He's going to be a rotation piece, for at least a few years.

    Anyone from Duke
    I can't decide which Duke player I like least: Vernon Carey, Tre Jones, or Cassius Stanley. They're all old school in a new school game. (Similar to many on this list, in fact.) Carey's a beefy low-post scorer like his fellow Dukie, Okafor. Okaforget'em. Cassius Stanley looks like Cam Reddish's smaller, less athletic cousin. And Jones is a Duke PG. 'Nuff said.
    - You have to figure that any competent organization - compared with Charlotte at the time - could have at least developed MKG into another Andre Iquodala. And I'm not sure that Okoro's ceiling is anywhere close to that of MKG's ceiling entering the '12 draft. Thus, selecting Okoro ahead of other 3-and-D candidates -such as Vassell, Bey and Nesmith - seems like the type of move that precipitates the firing of a GM.

    - Regarding Achiuwa, he purportedly can switch out and guard players on the perimeter. Thus, someone will assuredly take a chance on him somewhere around 12-15, and I've seen Achiuwa mocked to Boston at 14 at times. Should he sap whatever offensive potential he possesses, Achiuwa may amount to what Boston thought they were getting with Semi Ojeleye - and remember, I was as high on Ojeleye as a '17 draft prospect as anyone - but that seems too iffy a proposition to take to the bank.
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  17. #41
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Sadly, Charlotte is where potential goes to die. Someone had to take over that Moniker from the Cripplers' franchise.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  18. #42
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Sadly, Charlotte is where potential goes to die. Someone had to take over that Moniker from the Cripplers' franchise.
    Nah. Charlotte just really sucks at drafting, more often than not. (And has been fairly unlucky when acquiring talent.)

    DeVonte Graham showed real flashes early last season (before falling back to earth a bit). PJ Washington's going to be a stretch four first-division starter for 15 years-- and if he develops at all, perhaps more.

    They've been stuck in the middle for so long that it's hard to find a star. And they need a star more than any team this side of the Big Apple.

  19. #43
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    - You have to figure that any competent organization - compared with Charlotte at the time - could have at least developed MKG into another Andre Iquodala. And I'm not sure that Okoro's ceiling is anywhere close to that of MKG's ceiling entering the '12 draft. Thus, selecting Okoro ahead of other 3-and-D candidates -such as Vassell, Bey and Nesmith - seems like the type of move that precipitates the firing of a GM.
    MKG is one of the great missed opportunity players in the game today. Put him on the Spurs, and I suspect he's an All-Star.

    They just let his shot get in his head and that grew to impact his entire game.

    And I suspect you're absolutely correct on the list of solid 3-and-D choices, Rev. It's all about value. What Okoro provides (and Achiuwa, really) is readily available way, way lower in the draft. The NBA has become the makers' league-- you have to be a threat to score (consistently) from somewhere other than the paint. Vassell, Bey, and Nesmith project to do that. Okoro doesn't. (Yet.)
    Last edited by Bourgeois Zee; 10-23-2020 at 03:51 PM.

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  21. #44
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Daniel Oturu, who is 6-foot-10 and 240 pounds, shot 67.5 percent from three-point range (104 for 154) and 87 percent from the free throw line (87 for 100) at the P3 Sports Science facility in Santa Barbara, Calif. P3 Sports Science runs combine drills for the NBA Draft, which is scheduled to be held virtually Nov. 18. In other testing results, Oturu’s box lane agility drill (11.37 seconds), 3/4 court sprint (3.28 seconds), standing vertical jump (29.5 inches) and max vertical (35.5 inches) topped averages at his position from the 2019 NBA Draft combine in Chicago. – via Minneapolis Star-Tribune
    That kind of shooting will get a big guy paid. Oturu's one of those guys who could be out of the league in two years or a starting center for 15.

    I'd probably take a gamble on him, depending on who else is available, somewhere around the mid-lottery, assuming my scouts liked his motor and quickness enough to think he might be able to switch onto fours at times. (And if not, I'd only drop him five spots or so.)

  22. #45
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    Re: NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Sadly, Charlotte is where potential goes to die. Someone had to take over that Moniker from the Cripplers' franchise.
    While it's obvious that this incarnation of the Charlotte franchise fails to develop draftees for the most part, BZ nailed it - They basically suck at drafting overall. Mitch Kupchak gives them a fighting chance in that regard, however.

    Ironically, neither drafting nor developing young talent were the main issues with Sterling's Clippers. Rather, the issue was team building around young talent, often magnified by trading away what should have been young cornerstones for sub-par veteran-laden returns - Tom Chambers and Terry Cummings, for example.
    .
    Speaking of crippling (whether or not Cripplers' was intentional, it's amusing, btw), turning the rights to Danny 'The Next Larry Bird' Ferry into Ron Harper was absolute alchemy, and wound up crippling the Cavs. Yes, I'm aware that the Price/Daugherty Cavs reached the '92 ECF, but had no real shot at ousting the Bulls without Harper, spending years searching for a replacement before both Price and Daugherty were shelved with injuries.

    Of course, Sterling screwed up any chance of keeping the playoff team coached by Larry Brown - with a core of Harper, Danny Manning and Mark Jackson - together.
    Last edited by Revering4Blue; 10-24-2020 at 09:21 PM.
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