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Thread: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

  1. #1
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Oh whatta tangled web we weave Rob Manfred
    Alex Cora is back as manager of the Red Sox and I am in favor of the move. I like Cora and think he works well with everyone at Fenway. He is a good baseball man, a proven winner, and demonstrated rare ability to handle the difficult task of managing in Boston. He makes the Red Sox better, more relevant, and more interesting. Instantly.

    But he is also a convicted cheater of the game ó one of the Astros crime bosses who played a role in stealing the World Series from the Dodgers in 2017. Cora has acknowledged his guilt and served the one-season (60-game) suspension ordered by baseball commissioner Rob Manfred. Here in America we are all about second chances and the Red Sox are giving Cora a second chance.
    Swell.

    Now, can you tell me what to do about the wall of integrity baseball asks me and other baseball writers to defend? If weíre going to welcome Cora and A.J. Hinch (Tigers manager) back to the dugout, what do we do now about Pete Rose? Sammy Sosa? Roger Clemens? Manny Ramirez? Barry Bonds?
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/11/...ther-cheaters/


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    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Slaps on the wrist for everyone involved. Worst of all, the players didn’t even get that.


    This was basically Manfred’s handling of the incident:

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
    "[Price] said he and the GM have become ďsomewhat in lockstepĒ with how they view the best way forward for the team, including how to handle promotions and playing young players while also trying to win games."

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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    It appears cheating is irrelevant now. Move on like it never happened and wonít ever happen again.

    Winning at any cost is what matters. Who cares if people doubt your legitimacy.

    Iím speaking of the Tigers, Red Sox and Astros of course.

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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Remember when some people who cheated at baseball was the worst thing happening in the US?

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    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Also from the same article
    There are a number of Hall voters who cast ballots for PED suspects based on the belief that said candidates already had Hall numbers before they cheated

    Other writers withhold votes to PED users only if there is evidence. They’ll vote for players who appear to be obvious PED guys (Jeff Bagwell, Pudge Rodriguez, and Mike Piazza) because they never got caught.

    David Ortiz, who won’t be eligible until 2022, owns his own category in Hall consideration. Ortiz’s name turned up on a baseline PED testing list in 2003, along with Alex Rodriguez, Manny, and Sosa. In 2016, Manfred came to Boston and told writers they should not trust Ortiz’s name on the 2003 test. Manfred urged voters not to jump to conclusions regarding Ortiz’s guilt. Manny, A-Rod, and Sosa received no such Hall pass. Unlike those scoundrels, MLB loves Big Papi.

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    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    I’m an idiot but the circle back to Cora really confuses me.

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    Goober GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Does this mean Rose has a chance? LMAO
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

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    We have a pool and a pond Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Comparing the Astros scandal to anything else from the past is apples and oranges.

    We live in a world now where we've been shown that it's ok to cheat. Cheat at baseball, cheat on your taxes, cheat to pass the final, cheat on your friends/family.

    Whatever it takes to get ahead. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't trying. If you're poor or inept but not rich, don't get caught. That's about it. Otherwise, it's wide-open spaces with zero consequences.

    Part of me thinks it wasn't always this way. But it's harder not to get caught now, smartphones and all of that. That's probably the only real difference. Although I will say that until somewhat recently, we at least pretended to punish cheaters. Now we don't even bother with that.

    "Playing fair" is something that was sold to the working class, so as to put them at an even greater competitive disadvantage.

    OK, that's your pep-talk, son. Now go out there and play that little league baseball game. Let me know if they need you to pitch, I'll give you the cap with the pine tar rubbed all over it. Don't bother hiding it. You're just cheating. Not like you're doing anything wrong.

    Go out there and cheat your best, son. If you cheat well enough, maybe you'll make it to the World Series one day.
    Last edited by Bob Sheed; 11-09-2020 at 09:21 AM.
    "Taylorís not wrong about needing to change the culture. Heís just going after the wrong culture. As I wrote Sunday, itís the Upstairs culture that needs changing, not the Downstairs. The only person whoís ever done a thing about that culture is now assisting Herm Edwards at Arizona State." -PD

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by citizen View Post
    Remember when some people who cheated at baseball was the worst thing happening in the US?
    Not really

    Cheating on the field vs other players is different than your obvious allusion to the Rose situation.

    Not saying it's right, nor an execution worthy event. But sign stealing has never gotten a player banned forever.

    On another note I can't recommend this book on the sign stealing involved in the 1951 pennant race enough.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Echoing_Green_(book)

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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Poor ralph branca

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    Moderator Kinsm's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    How does mlb allowing Cora back into the fold equate to the baseball journalists who vote on entry into the HOF?

  19. #12
    They call me "chef"
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    Comparing the Astros scandal to anything else from the past is apples and oranges.

    We live in a world now where we've been shown that it's ok to cheat. Cheat at baseball, cheat on your taxes, cheat to pass the final, cheat on your friends/family.

    Whatever it takes to get ahead. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't trying. If you're poor or inept but not rich, don't get caught. That's about it. Otherwise, it's wide-open spaces with zero consequences.

    Part of me thinks it wasn't always this way. But it's harder not to get caught now, smartphones and all of that. That's probably the only real difference. Although I will say that until somewhat recently, we at least pretended to punish cheaters. Now we don't even bother with that.

    "Playing fair" is something that was sold to the working class, so as to put them at an even greater competitive disadvantage.

    OK, that's your pep-talk, son. Now go out there and play that little league baseball game. Let me know if they need you to pitch, I'll give you the cap with the pine tar rubbed all over it. Don't bother hiding it. You're just cheating. Not like you're doing anything wrong.

    Go out there and cheat your best, son. If you cheat well enough, maybe you'll make it to the World Series one day.
    To comfort myself, I like to think of most things in these terms. Things aren't necessarily "worse". We just have better tools/access that allow us to see things for how bad they've always been and the panic/anxiety/sting comes from us being exposed to it so clearly for the first time.

    There are rules for the wealthy and elite. And then there are rules for you and I. Many moralistic adages are aimed at keeping the peons obedient, docile, humble, and meek while those with power and capital run roughshod with reckless abandon over every virtue they preach to the out-group on their way to rampant success and wealth.

    It's not a perfect adage but I think it's truer than any sense of justice we are brought up with that wealthy people only really get in trouble for stealing from or messing with more wealthy people. IMO, individual opponents might be mad and some teams might be able to calculate how much revenue they lost from losing a playoff series but, in the grand scheme, the fans got cheated the most with the least compensation for this and everyone in MLB with security and power is still raking in their bread and they have more to gain from protecting each other/themselves than upholding the sanctity of the game for 11-year-old Johnny watching at home.

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    Member 15fan's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    The Red Sox FO chose to rehire Cora, so that’s where you direct the vitriol IMO.

    Sports are always better with villains. Always. So for the folks who don’t like the Red Sox, the victories against them will now be more satisfying and the losses more painful. And the visits by the Sox to Yankee Stadium should be even more entertaining.

  22. #14
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Tony LaRussa.

    Discuss.

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    Goober GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    I was only making a joke about Rose. Not trying to equate the two situations. LOL

    Sign stealing's been around forever, and is not on the same level (IMO) then betting on the game, dealing with gamblers and other unsavory characters whose influence on the sport would be far more devastating, greatly hurt the integrity of the sport, then managers figuring out inventive ways to steal the opposition's signs. JMO.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

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