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Thread: Poor Kevin Cash

  1. #61
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by JFLegal View Post
    again, kevin cash did not go with the analytics when he pulled snell ... he went against them.

    why is everyone ignoring this fact? some of you need to watch that jomboy video. or watch it again and pay attention this time.

    going against both common sense & analytics is a bad combination. and that's exactly what we witnessed in game 6.
    The Jomboy video isn't the end of the world.

    He didn't go against all analytics. Snell's velocity had dropped. Mookie historically hit lefties quote well.

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  4. #62
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Berenyi View Post
    can you imagine removing bob gibson after 5 innings
    Sure can.... 4.7 RPG NL in 2020, 3.4 RPG in 1968

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    Revering4Blue (10-29-2020),Roy Tucker (10-29-2020)

  6. #63
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Just saying, I’m glad David Bell for once wasn’t smoking what Kevin Cash was in game 1 vs the Braves, otherwise it would’ve robbed us of maybe the best single game pitching performance I’ve ever seen by Trevor Bauer.
    Maybe he was. The analytics were quite different for Bauer this year. He didn't falter later in games.

  7. #64
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Maybe he was. The analytics were quite different for Bauer this year. He didn't falter later in games.
    The analytics were different because the managers used their starters differently. Bell let his starters go deep if the situation made sense. Cash never let Snell go deep. We don’t know how Snell would have done if he went deeper because he never went farther than 5 innings this season.
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  8. #65
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The analytics were different because the managers used their starters differently. Bell let his starters go deep if the situation made sense. Cash never let Snell go deep. We don’t know how Snell would have done if he went deeper because he never went farther than 5 innings this season.
    That was kind of my thought about it too.

  9. #66
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Maybe he was. The analytics were quite different for Bauer this year. He didn't falter later in games.
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    For reference, Bauer was excellent this year in the 75-100 pitch category and 3rd time through the order. Not all pitchers are the same and should not be treated the same. Bauer also wasn't showing signs of diminished velocity. Its possible that it made sense to pull Snell, and not Bauer, and be analytically on side in both cases. People act like "analytics" creates hard fastened rules that point to hard lined conclusions. Analytics is simply the use of significant amounts of data used to craft decisions based on a combination of qualitative and quantitative factors. People are ignoring real evidence that Snell was showing a decline in ability, does perform worse after around 75 pitches, and does struggle 3rd time through the order, and rather basing the decision off of an awesome 5.2 innings during the first 75 pitches. Both factors should be taken into consideration, but generally, there was a larger pile of evidence and logic used to override Snell's dominance in the first 75 pitches of one particular game.


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  10. #67
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The analytics were different because the managers used their starters differently. Bell let his starters go deep if the situation made sense. Cash never let Snell go deep. We don’t know how Snell would have done if he went deeper because he never went farther than 5 innings this season.
    And how did that work for the Rays?

    Hint, they were in the top 5 of basically every single pitching category this season despite having the lowest payroll in MLB.

    They are robotic, and kind of unfun. But they make disciplined decisions that got them past every single team in baseball except a super elite team.


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  11. #68
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    And how did that work for the Rays?

    Hint, they were in the top 5 of basically every single pitching category this season despite having the lowest payroll in MLB.

    They are robotic, and kind of unfun. But they make disciplined decisions that got them past every single team in baseball except a super elite team.
    I felt the same way about David Bell pulling our guys super early last year. Luckily he gave Castillo and Gray changes to stretch out and prove themselves. Snell didn’t pitching 6 innings even once this season. Having a guy that could go deep into a game Bauer style may have been the difference between winning and losing the World Series for the Rays.

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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    And how did that work for the Rays?

    Hint, they were in the top 5 of basically every single pitching category this season despite having the lowest payroll in MLB.

    They are robotic, and kind of unfun. But they make disciplined decisions that got them past every single team in baseball except a super elite team.
    Again, it works fine in the regular season. We just saw it’s limitations in the postseason.
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  13. #70
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Again, it works fine in the regular season. We just saw it’s limitations in the postseason.
    Lol this team was 2 wins away from a World Series title. Their overall tactics worked out incredibly well in the playoffs.


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  15. #71
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Again, it works fine in the regular season. We just saw it’s limitations in the postseason.
    It worked just fine in the postseason. They beat every team except the one team that was actually better than them.

    You make it sound like they underachieved in the postseason. Nothing is further from the truth.

    If they had deviated from the strategy that got them into the playoffs, it’s most likely they would have lost earlier.


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  16. #72
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    It worked just fine in the postseason. They beat every team except the one team that was actually better than them.

    You make it sound like they underachieved in the postseason. Nothing is further from the truth.

    If they had deviated from the strategy that got them into the playoffs, it’s most likely they would have lost earlier.


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    Kissing your sister isn’t success, imo.

    It definitely hurt them in this one instance. They might be hoisting a World Series Championship banner had Cash been willing to go off the chart, just this once.
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  17. #73
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    The Jomboy video isn't the end of the world.
    end of the world? of course not. but it does clearly spell out why it was a terrible decision and actually went against the advanced metrics.

  18. #74
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Kissing your sister isn’t success, imo.

    It definitely hurt them in this one instance. They might be hoisting a World Series Championship banner had Cash been willing to go off the chart, just this once.
    You are really now starting to did yourself a big hole.

    So, in summary, Cash was correct in following analytics until that one final time, when he should have gone against the charts.

    If only he could see the future.


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  19. #75
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    Re: Poor Kevin Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by JFLegal View Post
    end of the world? of course not. but it does clearly spell out why it was a terrible decision and actually went against the advanced metrics.
    It was wrong in interpreting many facts.


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