If the DH stays...

[Chip R]

I actually like 7 inning doubleheaders. It's been that way in the minors for decades. I think a case could be made that it would be more popular for the fans than 9 inning doubleheaders. It's not like the old days where you had doubleheaders on Sundays. With game times as long as they are, I don't know why anyone would want to go to one. They may say they do but if push came to shove, they would choose not to go or leave early. With 7 inning doubleheaders you're basically cutting off two hours. You may be able to play two 7 inning games in the time it takes for the Yankees and Red Sox to play 1 game. But you could also schedule them too instead of having them be the result of rainouts. You wouldn't have to schedule those money grubbing split doubleheaders anymore. With all the distractions at one's disposal, more people may pay attention to the games if they are two seven inning games instead of two 9 inning games.

[Wonderful Monds]

I despise 7 inning double headers. It screws with stat and record keeping and the games feel incredibly short. I’d rather they stop playing double headers entirely than do 7 inning ones.

[REDREAD]

SMH. If analytics has changed the game to less small ball and more long ball, then what's the problem with the shift to counter it? Seems to me that the analytics that determined swinging for the fences was more efficient, determined this without taking into account the shift. Maybe the shift will bring back small ball. The shift says "If you're going to swing for the fences, you will sacrifice the ability to luck out and have a ground ball sneak through the holes in the infield". If the combination of less small ball along with the shift has taken away "a reasonable chance of striking the ball for a hit" then it's time to counter that by finding more Pete Roses/Rickey Hendersons and less Mark Mcgwires.

All sports continue to evolve and need to be allowed to instead of making drastic changes to the rules to counteract trends that make the game less exciting for a period of time. Let nature take its course.

That's a good point. If the shift is not outlawed, I am sure eventually players will adjust.
I guess my problem with "The game will adjust" approach is that I Don't want to wait
10 years for a new crop of players that will take the ball to the opposite field. I want baseball to
have more hits now. The biggest complaint about baseball is that it is too slow and boring.
If there was more action per hour, I don't think the game length would be as much of an issue.

Honestly, the Reds playoff series this year was the least enjoyable playoffs I have ever seen, with
the Reds failing to score a single run. I want less of that.

[foster15]

That's a good point. If the shift is not outlawed, I am sure eventually players will adjust.
I guess my problem with "The game will adjust" approach is that I Don't want to wait
10 years for a new crop of players that will take the ball to the opposite field. I want baseball to
have more hits now. The biggest complaint about baseball is that it is too slow and boring.
If there was more action per hour, I don't think the game length would be as much of an issue.

Honestly, the Reds playoff series this year was the least enjoyable playoffs I have ever seen, with
the Reds failing to score a single run. I want less of that.

Yeah, wasn't fun for me either. But here's the thing, it wasn't the shift that prevented the Reds from scoring runs, it was the lack of small ball production that did. That and waiting for the home run that has a way of not showing up for periods of time.

The Reds not having timely hitting have less to do with the direction baseball is going and more to do with the way the Reds are built. Dodgers and Rays didn't seem to have trouble scoring runs.

[Kc61]

Yeah, wasn't fun for me either. But here's the thing, it wasn't the shift that prevented the Reds from scoring runs, it was the lack of small ball production that did. That and waiting for the home run that has a way of not showing up for periods of time.

The Reds not having timely hitting have less to do with the direction baseball is going and more to do with the way the Reds are built. Dodgers and Rays didn't seem to have trouble scoring runs.

You cannot disconnect the shift and the home run approach. One of the main reasons for the home run approach is to avoid the impact of the shift.

[foster15]

You cannot disconnect the shift and the home run approach. One of the main reasons for the home run approach is to avoid the impact of the shift.

The chicken and egg argument. We disagree on which came first.

[Ironman92]

Unless Votto is going to take a lesser role in the lineup...I want him at DH

[foster15]

Unless Votto is going to take a lesser role in the lineup...I want him at DH

Unless not being in the field turns Joey Votto into the young Joey Votto with the bat, how does he DHing help the team? If it takes Winker out of the lineup it doesn't help your offense, and if it puts Winker out in the field, it doesn't help your defense.

[mth123]

Unless not being in the field turns Joey Votto into the young Joey Votto with the bat, how does he DHing help the team? If it takes Winker out of the lineup it doesn't help your offense, and if it puts Winker out in the field, it doesn't help your defense.

I'd say at this point, Votto is the worst defender on the roster by far. His DRS in 60 games was -7. Over a full season, that's almost 20 runs allowed above an average first baseman. I agree that Winker can't go to the OF while Castellanos is already out there. It's why this team needs changes. Votto is going to be here for 3 more years. So will Winker and Castellanos. This can't go on that long.

[bm1475]

The counterarguments to "just learn to take the ball the other way" are 1. with how hard pitchers throw, it's impossible to have an all-fields approach reliably, and 2. even if it were possible to wait ten years and hope Pee Wee adopts that approach, it's still more efficient from an expected-runs point of view to try to hit it over the wall every time.

[M2]

I'd say at this point, Votto is the worst defender on the roster by far. His DRS in 60 games was -7. Over a full season, that's almost 20 runs allowed above an average first baseman. I agree that Winker can't go to the OF while Castellanos is already out there. It's why this team needs changes. Votto is going to be here for 3 more years. So will Winker and Castellanos. This can't go on that long.

Votto's 2020 D stats are small sample hoodoo. I'm not putting stock in them.

[mth123]

Votto's 2020 D stats are small sample hoodoo. I'm not putting stock in them.

Except he's never really been any good over there.

[foster15]

Votto's 2020 D stats are small sample hoodoo. I'm not putting stock in them.

While I wouldn't go so far as to slam the sample size, I will throw out a possible excuse which might indicate that his fielding stats in a normal season would be better. Absent a spring training, all 5 of Votto's errors happened in his first 32 games played while he had zero in his final 18(not counting post season where he had one in game one).

[mth123]

While I wouldn't go so far as to slam the sample size, I will throw out a possible excuse which might indicate that his fielding stats in a normal season would be better. Absent a spring training, all 5 of Votto's errors happened in his first 32 games played while he had zero in his final 18(not counting post season where he had one in game one).

His technique is poor around the bag. Now his reactions are a bit slower so he doesn't get away with it as much. Balls that were an adventure before but still were outs are more frequently becoming infield hits or errors on the throw that should have been avoided. Its more than Votto's errors.

[foster15]

Except he's never really been any good over there.

The thing is, he's only had 3 negative rds seasons at 1st base in his career and they were spread out in years 3, 10 and 14 which says to me we can't totally discard that he could be back in positive territory next season. I'm saying this because if he's about average, it probably means he should still be at 1st base while Winker holds down the DH.