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Thread: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

  1. #31
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    I've never liked LaRussa, and I'm not a drinker, but the list of MLB managers who (1) reportedly abused alcohol and (2) were extremely successful as managers is long. Joe McCarthy has a good argument as being the best manager ever, and he reportedly was an alcoholic. Goodness, Billy Martin battled the bottle, and virtually everyone else, but he was always a very successful manager, albeit usually only for a short term with each team.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    Ron Madden (11-12-2020)


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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't get the moral outrage. These guys aren't being hired to teach our children or be our ministers, they are being hired because of their knowledge or ability as far as baseball goes.

    As far as being suspended, Cora and Hinch did their time. These weren't lifetime bans. Why are we expecting them to be unable to get a job for the rest of their life?

    Larussa's drinking issues aren't something I'm a fan of, but plenty of people work plenty of responsible jobs who have a dui or two in their past. It has nothing to do with his ability to manage unless he's drunk in the dugout. Now if it had some other negative impact, like say fans stayed away because of it, there would a reason to deny him a job, but that doesn't happen.

    I'd take any of those guys tomorrow over David Bell.
    dui is worse than cheating because you can take train bus or taxi
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

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    We have a pool and a pond Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Alex Cora on taking the fall for 2017 Astros: "Everybody was involved"


    https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/11...-was-involved/
    That will happen, when, you know, everybody cheats with relative impunity.
    "Taylorís not wrong about needing to change the culture. Heís just going after the wrong culture. As I wrote Sunday, itís the Upstairs culture that needs changing, not the Downstairs. The only person whoís ever done a thing about that culture is now assisting Herm Edwards at Arizona State." -PD

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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    And yet Alex Cora was hired almost immediately after his suspension was up. And Tony LaRussa was hired by the white sox after knowing heís a horrible person. I wonder why...
    The White Sox hired LaRussa because Jerry Reinsdorf is an idiot, it doesnít seem like anyone at else in their organization is happy with that move at all. Heís been out of the game for a long time now and the league has changed big time since he was last a manager. I think thatís going to blow up in their face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't get the moral outrage. These guys aren't being hired to teach our children or be our ministers, they are being hired because of their knowledge or ability as far as baseball goes.

    As far as being suspended, Cora and Hinch did their time. These weren't lifetime bans. Why are we expecting them to be unable to get a job for the rest of their life?

    Larussa's drinking issues aren't something I'm a fan of, but plenty of people work plenty of responsible jobs who have a dui or two in their past. It has nothing to do with his ability to manage unless he's drunk in the dugout. Now if it had some other negative impact, like say fans stayed away because of it, there would a reason to deny him a job, but that doesn't happen.

    I'd take any of those guys tomorrow over David Bell.
    https://www.baseballprospectus.com/n...ago-white-sox/

    And not mentioned once in this article by the author, who details their own problems due to and after the accident: Jen's husband died that night.
    Last edited by dougdirt; 11-13-2020 at 10:37 AM.

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    dreghorntwo (11-16-2020)

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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't get the moral outrage. These guys aren't being hired to teach our children or be our ministers, they are being hired because of their knowledge or ability as far as baseball goes.

    As far as being suspended, Cora and Hinch did their time. These weren't lifetime bans. Why are we expecting them to be unable to get a job for the rest of their life?

    Larussa's drinking issues aren't something I'm a fan of, but plenty of people work plenty of responsible jobs who have a dui or two in their past. It has nothing to do with his ability to manage unless he's drunk in the dugout. Now if it had some other negative impact, like say fans stayed away because of it, there would a reason to deny him a job, but that doesn't happen.

    I'd take any of those guys tomorrow over David Bell.
    Concerning Cora and Hinch, I thought they should have received a lifetime ban. If a mandatory one exists for gambling, a mandatory one should exist for cheating like they did. I canít get too upset at their teams for hiring them (definitely going to root against them) but this re-enforces my hatred over Manfredís handling of the situation.

    Concerning LaRussa, if this was the only problem with him, it wouldnít be much of an issue. But we all know itís just one more reason to hate the guy who is one of the most loathsome people in the game.
    ďWeíre going to get the pitching.Ē -Bob Castellini
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    dui is worse than cheating because you can take train bus or taxi
    I agree. I'm not a fan of a DUI, but unless he's actually in jail and unable to perform his duties. it doesn't stop anyone from hiring him.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  11. #38
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I agree. I'm not a fan of a DUI, but unless he's actually in jail and unable to perform his duties. it doesn't stop anyone from hiring him.
    Doesn't. But should when there are clearly other very qualified candidates that can do the job.

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    dreghorntwo (11-16-2020)

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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Doesn't. But should when there are clearly other very qualified candidates that can do the job.
    If you can judge who is a better manager than anyone else, you are better than I am. They all mostly do the same thing and follow the same "book." I think it's mostly about chemistry on the field and in the clubhouse. I have no idea who is most qualified from that standpoint. The "strategic" part of the job is pretty basic and not a differentiator IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    It sucks that living in Illinois and flipping channels I will have to listen to Steve Stone talk about Tony La Russa. It sickens me to think about it.
    Last edited by sdm24; 11-15-2020 at 10:25 PM.

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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Then there is Cano... Some random person on reddit summed it up best...

    Let this be a lesson for all the college kids and minor league players out there. Cano will have to forfeit $24M of his potential earnings and will be left with the measly $200M he’s earned up until now (and potentially $48M left to collect through 2022 and 2023).

    Cheating doesn’t pay.
    "Taylorís not wrong about needing to change the culture. Heís just going after the wrong culture. As I wrote Sunday, itís the Upstairs culture that needs changing, not the Downstairs. The only person whoís ever done a thing about that culture is now assisting Herm Edwards at Arizona State." -PD

  16. #42
    We have a pool and a pond Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    And we can't forget about our own Trevor Bauer.

    Correct me if I'm wrong about the order of events...

    Bauer was a good, not great pitcher.
    He complained openly that most pitchers cheat by using foreign substances on the ball.
    He said if he started doing it, you'd see a crazy jump in his spin rate and his effectiveness would go through the roof.
    The following season, his effectiveness goes through the roof, and he wins the Cy Young award.
    And the Budweiser loot, among other ad revenue.
    And whatever new contract he gets.

    Again, it's not just baseball. At some point, cheating became "ok." And that is strange to me.

    When I was a much younger Bob Sheed, I cheated in college once. I was headed into an exam where I had to write for an hour, referencing material that I should have memorized but did not. They used these things called "blue books" to write the essays in, that you had to buy ahead of time.

    So I bought two. I wrote the best paper I could, referencing every fact, all in perfect order. The night before. Then on exam day, I pretended to write for an hour in one blue book and when the time was almost up, I grabbed my backpack, opened it up, and swapped the blue book with the one I had written the night before.

    I felt so bad. I knew it was wrong. So much so that it sticks with me to this day. It was wrong. I got a B. I would have gotten an F and failed the class. I pondered for a moment, "jeez that was easy. I wonder how many people just cheat all the time?" But it was a one-off for me and I didn't give it much thought from that point forward.

    These days though?

    Not making this political, but in every aspect of life, I see cheaters rewarded on a daily basis. Some even blatantly admit/flaunt the fact that they are cheating.

    Again, maybe this has always been so, and I was just naive to it all. I just can't believe how obvious it is now though. And sports just reflects that.

    Last edited by Bob Sheed; 11-19-2020 at 10:15 AM.
    "Taylorís not wrong about needing to change the culture. Heís just going after the wrong culture. As I wrote Sunday, itís the Upstairs culture that needs changing, not the Downstairs. The only person whoís ever done a thing about that culture is now assisting Herm Edwards at Arizona State." -PD

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    mth123 (11-19-2020)

  18. #43
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Alex Cora Is Getting A 2nd Chance, What About Baseballís Other Cheaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    As far as being suspended, Cora and Hinch did their time. These weren't lifetime bans. Why are we expecting them to be unable to get a job for the rest of their life?
    .
    This is where I come down as well. If you thought that a one-year ban was too short, then I can see why you were troubled that they were hired as soon as their penalty was served. But if you think that one year and millions of dollars in salary was the correct penalty (as I do), then the only reason you wouldn't hire them is if you didn't that they were great managers and/or you are concerned they'll do something like this again. They served their time; they have proven track records; as far as I know, these are the only such incidents reflecting poorly on their character.
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