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Thread: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

  1. #616
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    This is the first amendment.



    The regulations do not in anyway prohibit the free exercise of religion, nor the right to assembly. Everyone is allowed to gather and practice their religion under these regulations. The only restriction is that they can’t do it in a large gathering of more than ten people.
    The ruling wasn't aimed at current regulations in NY. It takes a long time for something to get to SCOTUS. This ruling is a standard that will be referenced and used in the future as exec overreaches continue.

    Allowing "essential" establishments to remain operational (at the discretion of one man) while disallowing religious establishments to open and gather for services is literally the discrimination the first amendment is aimed to prevent.


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  3. #617
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    The ruling wasn't aimed at current regulations in NY. It takes a long time for something to get to SCOTUS. This ruling is a standard that will be referenced and used in the future as exec overreaches continue.

    Allowing "essential" establishments to remain operational (at the discretion of one man) while disallowing religious establishments to open and gather for services is literally the discrimination the first amendment is aimed to prevent.
    Religious organizations were not discriminated against. Religious organizations could stay open as long as they followed the protocol of every other non-essential business, which means fewer than 10 people in one place.

    The distiction was between essential and non-essential businesses, and if if that were a problem, then SCOTUS would have ruled on that, and deemed no one could make that distinction. But they didn’t. City’s and state’s have always been allowed to designate some places as “essential” and some as “non-essential.” There is nothing in the constitution prohibiting that.
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  4. #618
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    That said, if it were a 9-0 decision, you're right - it wouldn't be controversial. It was 5-4. So there's absolutely some controversy when it's basically split down the middle.
    Partisan times man. What ACB and other right judges ruled on isn't crazy. How do you justify liquor stores being open but closed synagogues?

  5. #619
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Religious organizations were not discriminated against. Religious organizations could stay open as long as they followed the protocol of every other non-essential business, which means fewer than 10 people in one place.

    The distiction was between essential and non-essential businesses, and if if that were a problem, then SCOTUS would have ruled on that, and deemed no one could make that distinction. But they didn’t. City’s and state’s have always been allowed to designate some places as “essential” and some as “non-essential.” There is nothing in the constitution prohibiting that.
    Find a Wal-Mart, Publix, Lowes or any mega huge store that has abided by this standard.

    Also, you should really read Gorsuch's words for the rest.

  6. #620
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    Hill I will die on. We're either all essential and worth the risk or none of us are.

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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    Find a Wal-Mart, Publix, Lowes or any mega huge store that has abided by this standard.

    Also, you should really read Gorsuch's words for the rest.
    Essential stores had a different limit.

    Again, this comes down to whether or not cities and states can designate some businesses as “essential” and others as “non-essential” and this is not even controversial. They can.
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  9. #622
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    Hill I will die on. We're either all essential and worth the risk or none of us are.
    You’re free to believe that. But cities and states have the constitutional right to make a disticintion between essential and non-essential businesses. The courts have no grounds to stop them.
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  10. #623
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Essential stores had a different limit.

    Again, this comes down to whether or not cities and states can designate some businesses as “essential” and others as “non-essential” and this is not even controversial. They can.
    And my issue is with the "essential" designation at its core. I don't think anyone should be able to say who can and can't work. I don't care if you strip or bag groceries. Your job pays the bills.

    Americans want to go to work, if given the choice. Just ask them.

  11. #624
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    they didn’t. City’s and state’s have always been allowed to designate some places as “essential” and some as “non-essential.” There is nothing in the constitution prohibiting that.
    Yes, there has, it's called the First Amendment. Religious and political activity is not commercial. "Essential and non essential" tests don't apply.

    But you see all of this in terms of businesses. Because you're a neoliberal. But the framers didn't.

  12. #625
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    You can't close churches. How is that not a rock-solid ruling?

    I guess liberals won't acknowledge that their trying to exercise their cultural power over others.

    Fascism by another name.
    Last edited by Rojo; 11-28-2020 at 03:09 AM.

  13. #626
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    WEAR A MASK!

    The compulsion to control others is pretty strong I guess.

  14. #627
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    And my issue is with the "essential" designation at its core. I don't think anyone should be able to say who can and can't work. I don't care if you strip or bag groceries. Your job pays the bills.

    Americans want to go to work, if given the choice. Just ask them.
    That's purposefully obtuse. The "essential" designation was the result of a good faith effort to slow the spread of the disease by only allowing activities that supplied critical items/services - food, household goods, healthcare.

    And Americans have been polled regularly about what they think we should be doing, and letting the virus have free range remains deeply unpopular - https://news.gallup.com/poll/308222/...-pandemic.aspx.
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    That's purposefully obtuse. The "essential" designation was the result of a good faith effort to slow the spread of the disease by only allowing activities that supplied critical items/services - food, household goods, healthcare.
    And this is what Gorsuch and Kavanaugh missed, which is amazing coming from a Supreme Court justice. Here is Sotomayor and Kegan’s dissent:

    "But JUSTICE GORSUCH does not even try to square his examples with the conditions medical experts tell us facilitate the spread of COVID-19: large groups of people gathering, speaking, and singing in close proximity indoors for extended periods of time ... Unlike religious services, which 'have every one of th(ose) risk factors,' ... bike repair shops and liquor stores generally do not feature customers gathering inside to sing and speak together for an hour or more at a time. ('Epidemiologists and physicians generally agree that religious services are among the riskiest activities'). Justices of this Court play a deadly game in second guessing the expert judgment of health officials about the environments in which a contagious virus, now infecting a million Americans each week, spreads most easily."
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
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  17. #629
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    It's pretty simple: treat everybody the same and don't highlight double standards by arbitrarily applying orders while attending mass gatherings of things you support.

  18. #630
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    Re: COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    Americans want to go to work, if given the choice. Just ask them.
    The alternative is starving, so yeah. It's a big stick.
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