COVID-19 Part IX -Vaccine Time

[757690]

Dude, I made my points quite clear.

The decision to shut down outdoor dining was based on science, not classism. I disagree with that decision, I think they got the science wrong. However the decision was not based on classism. Businesses of all sizes were closed. I am not playing both sides.

[kaldaniels]

I was responding to this:

I think he was just referring to her restaurant/saloon as a “bar.” We were discussing its outdoor dining.

[kaldaniels]

Dude, I made my points quite clear.

The decision to shut down outdoor dining was based on science, not classism. I disagree with that decision, I think they got the science wrong. However the decision was not based on classism. Businesses of all sizes were closed. I am not playing both sides.

But you think it was wrong. So don’t defend it (by explaining why they made the wrong decision). Stand with us against it.

[757690]

Proof that it is not classism is that when LA county closed everything, they also shut down all film and TV production. I know because my project was shut down, and we had to wait over a month before everything was opened again, and we could shoot.

This notion that film shoots were allowed to continue with everything else was shut down is false. Film shoots were treated the same as any other business. They were shut down when everything else was shut down, and opened when everything was opened. No special treatment.

[757690]

But you think it was wrong. So don’t defend it (by explaining why they made the wrong decision). Stand with us against it.

Is this a gang? I need to stand with everyone else?

I said I thought it was wrong. I may be wrong in thinking this, that is just my opinion. I am pushing back on this notion that the decision to close open air dining was based on classism and not science. That is simply false. The people who made that decision made it thinking they were following the science.

You realize that all of this is new, the data is new and limited, and open to interpretation. Experts can see the same data and come to different conclusions. It happens all the time and it is not nefarious.

[GAC]

File this away under the category of “dumbest thing I’ll hear today”:

OHSAA coronavirus rules: Students can wrestle, but can't shake hands

https://www.wlwt.com/amp/article/ohs...hands/34874133

It's even stupidier to try and play a Fall physical CONTACT sport called football if they are really that concerned about this virus! LOL

[GAC]

Folks, we can spend eternity arguing back n forth over the edicts by leadership at federal, state, and local levels, and their "unevenness". And you won't get any argument from me... you can pack people in Walmart or wherever; but you can't attend church, go to the gym, see a movie, get a hair cut, etc, etc., and why? Because leadership decided it was their responsibility to tell us what is and is not "essential" based on the directives of the health experts. We can say it was all done for the safety and protection of the country (people), and that is all fine and well ... but to many, it is still an "assault" on individual freedom/rights and goes to far, shows favoritism at the expense of many.

This is what government/leadership does. Is science involved in some of their decision-making? Of course, with some of their behavioral measures and protocols they've instituted initially to try and slow the spread. But now we've entered flu season, cases are rising, and leadership, IMO, basically doesn't know what to do. They're running out of ideas, feel they need to do something more because it's up to them to stop this virus. And IMO, unfortunately, some of their moves don't seem to be based on science as much as it's them basically throwing mud up against the wall to see if it sticks. Like governor Dewine's ridiculous 10PM to 5 AM curfew.

And it doesn't help when the public sees leadership violating those protocols, and not obeying the restrictions they place on the people - do as I say, not as I do. Doesn't go over well with convincing the public to take this virus as seriously as they want them to when they see that from their leadership, while people and businesses are hurting.

JMO, but there is really nothing more they can do, pro-actively, that they haven't already done or initiated. Ride the storm out.

My youngest son, who lives in Kenton, Ohio, called yesterday and said he, and the buddy he shares a house with, both tested positive. His buddy had to be tested for a new job when he found out. My son then went and got tested. They've quarantined, but he says they both feel fine.

Science is also telling us we're dealing with a virus where 99.4% are mild symptoms, no hospitalization... and the mortality rate is 1.9% in this country. That doesn't mean I take likely, or scoff, at what is occurring. It does help me though to keep things in perspective.

[Falls City Beer]

You really stretch things. You are the one creating the strawman of "reticent Black people" who are somehow equating the Tuskegee incident with a vaccine meant to help get the world back from a pandemic. You are the one equating people urging people to get vaccinated with the holocaust, which I find offensive for a number of reasons that I don't wish to list here.

Because plenty of Black Americans do express concern about vaccines due to the historical medical atrocities performed on them. This might not be “logical” to your dictatorial mind, but it’s a concern, an understandable one.

And my comparison wasn’t to “the Holocaust” but rather the fascistic groupthink and othering that seems to be forming in these threads about people who might have legitimate concerns about getting the vaccine. But I’m so glad you were so offended by my comparison. My ancestors thank you.

[BernieCarbo]

The data on bars is beyond clear and obvious. They are one of the most dangerous places. The hit all the negative checkmarks:

Inside
Crowded
Bad ventilation
People stay in one place for extend periods
Masks are rarely worn

Big business bars and small business bars are all closed. This has nothing to do with wealth. It has to do with safety and the data backs this up fully.

No, it is not clear and obvious. You always just make stuff up to boost your narrative. Unless you are going to the crappiest dive bars in the crappiest towns, indoor bars and restaurants have not been crowded, they have modern ventilation, and people (who know each other) sit together for an hour or so and wear masks when walking around. It's easy to find places like this, and science has shown that they are not the source of the spreader events- it has been private gatherings (in fact, the air quality in schools is worse than in restaurants). I mean, you are the one who dug in on tasing that mother at the football game because you insisted over and over that it was a crowded stadium (it was nearly empty per DeWine's order) and that she was sitting with strangers (she was sitting with family).

This is where the whole thing loses public support. There are special rules if you know the right people, and the rest are left in desperation and don't know what hit them, only because they didn't have a foot in the door and didn't have the right people speaking for them. And people like you defend it, and have done more harm than good.

[Strikes Out Looking]

Because plenty of Black Americans do express concern about vaccines due to the historical medical atrocities performed on them. This might not be “logical” to your dictatorial mind, but it’s a concern, an understandable one.

And my comparison wasn’t to “the Holocaust” but rather the fascistic groupthink and othering that seems to be forming in these threads about people who might have legitimate concerns about getting the vaccine. But I’m so glad you were so offended by my comparison. My ancestors thank you.

I don't even know why I respond. I'm making my new years resolution early and won't respond to any more of FCB's posts on this thread.

[757690]

No, it is not clear and obvious. You always just make stuff up to boost your narrative. Unless you are going to the crappiest dive bars in the crappiest towns, indoor bars and restaurants have not been crowded, they have modern ventilation, and people (who know each other) sit together for an hour or so and wear masks when walking around. It's easy to find places like this, and science has shown that they are not the source of the spreader events- it has been private gatherings (in fact, the air quality in schools is worse than in restaurants). I mean, you are the one who dug in on tasing that mother at the football game because you insisted over and over that it was a crowded stadium (it was nearly empty per DeWine's order) and that she was sitting with strangers (she was sitting with family).

This is where the whole thing loses public support. There are special rules if you know the right people, and the rest are left in desperation and don't know what hit them, only because they didn't have a foot in the door and didn't have the right people speaking for them. And people like you defend it, and have done more harm than good.

You are the one making things up for your narrative. Here is the hard data, and it is clear and obvious:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...s-hotels-risk/

Restaurants, gyms and coffee shops rank high among locations where the coronavirus is most likely to spread outside the home. That’s according to a newly published report based on data from millions of Americans, tracked by their phones as they went about daily life during the pandemic’s first wave.
The study provides statistical support for a strategy built around limiting capacity at indoor venues — such as capping crowds at 20 percent — while allowing those locations to remain open. The researchers contend that such a strategy can make a huge dent in the infection rate while causing a far more modest drop in the total number of visits to those venues.

And here is more data about the state of Minnesota:

https://www.twincities.com/2020/11/1...ovid-outbreak/

Here’s every Minnesota restaurant and bar that had a known COVID outbreak

[BernieCarbo]

You are the one making things up for your narrative. Here is the hard data, and it is clear and obvious:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...s-hotels-risk/

You don’t know how to analyze data. You are referring to the very beginning of the pandemic. Since then, the restaurants have done everything the governor has asked and it is never enough, and he himself has said the latest surge over the last two months has been due to private gatherings. Most restaurants in this area are very modern and to be honest, most of them have been built in the last 10 years. capacity has been reduced to 25%, they have been following protocols, and they have trained the staff. They are not responsible for spreading, and in fact, it’s probably one of the safer places that people can gather for an hour because otherwise they’re just going to meet at peoples homes.

We’re going to find out in about a week how bad private gatherings really are, because we certainly can’t blame the Thanksgiving dinner spike on restaurants.

[757690]

You don’t know how to analyze data. You are referring to the very beginning of the pandemic. Since then, the restaurants have done everything the governor has asked and it is never enough, and he himself has said the latest surge over the last two months has been due to private gatherings. Most restaurants in this area are very modern and to be honest, most of them have been built in the last 10 years. capacity has been reduced to 25%, they have been following protocols, and they have trained the staff. They are not responsible for spreading, and in fact, it’s probably one of the safer places that people can gather for an hour because otherwise they’re just going to meet at peoples homes.

We’re going to find out in about a week how bad private gatherings really are, because we certainly can’t blame the Thanksgiving dinner spike on restaurants.

I guess you didn’t read the article or analyze the data:

The article was from Nov. 10, 2020, not the beginning of the pandemic.
The data was used to come up with the current rules such as limiting capacity and hours, and that it is working.

[757690]

Because plenty of Black Americans do express concern about vaccines due to the historical medical atrocities performed on them. This might not be “logical” to your dictatorial mind, but it’s a concern, an understandable one.

I do agree with you on this point. Many people of color do not trust the government to issue vaccines because of the horrific past when the government used people of color as guinea pigs. I can’t really blame them.

There definitely needs to be an effort to convince these minority communities to take this vaccine. It won’t be easy, but it needs to be done. I would recommend getting leaders within these communities to publicly commit to taking the vaccine and encouraging others to do so as well. Obama getting it will be a big help, but more needs to be done.

[BernieCarbo]

I guess you didn’t read the article or analyze the data:

The article was from Nov. 10, 2020, not the beginning of the pandemic.
The data was used to come up with the current rules such as limiting capacity and hours, and that it is working.

I read the article, and it’s all over the map. It discusses recommendations that were made back in May, and nobody was saying that outdoor seating had to be closed. The current surge is because of private gatherings and has nothing to do with restaurants. In fact, the reduction in restaurant hours has caused more private gatherings. One case in point is Halloween- I personally don’t care about Halloween and I’ve never dressed up since I was eight years old, but a lot of people get into it. Well, because all of the restaurants were closed by 10 PM, people had private parties instead. Do you know what happened? At one party, out of 32 people who attended and stayed past midnight, 26 of them ended up testing positive for coronavirus. Now, I blame them, but it’s also human nature. If we had safe public places for people to get this out of the system, none of that would’ve happened. Of course, they are adults and I blame them, but it’s also human nature.

That’s why the governor is going on and on about private gatherings and how dangerous they are right now.