Turn Off Ads?
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 50

Thread: 2021 HOF Ballot

  1. #31
    TyrannoSuarez Wrecks WrongVerb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Monterey, CA
    Posts
    15,543

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Maybe the best question to ask about each player is this: did the game change because that player was in the league?
    Gratitude + Forgiveness = Happiness

    Covid to date...
    Total cases: 13,248,924
    New cases yesterday: 108,291
    Total deaths: 269,560
    New deaths yesterday: 1,311


  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #32
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    17,866

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    I just don't get how we can take the Hall of Fame seriously as a museum without it having inducted the player with the most career base hits and the other player with the most career home runs. Those are pretty big statistical records.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  4. Likes:

    mth123 (11-20-2020)

  5. #33
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    50,089

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I just don't get how we can take the Hall of Fame seriously as a museum without it having inducted the player with the most career base hits and the other player with the most career home runs. Those are pretty big statistical records.
    They have cool stuff to look at, it's pretty much what a museum is supposed to be.

    As for who is in the hall of fame, different thing right?

  6. #34
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    11,620

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    I'm not usually swayed by borderline HOF guys getting in because of their post-season exploits. Usually those exploits are more the result of small sample size than true talent level. But Schilling pitched 133 innings in the post-season and was lights out against elite competition. Not considering his post season to evaluate his body of work is just silly.

    My ballot:

    1. Bonds 162.8 WAR, 117.7 JAWS
    2. Clemens 139.2 WAR, 102.6 JAWS
    3. Schilling 79.5 WAR (plus postseason WAR which I'd guess is somewhere between 6 and 8), 64.1 JAWS
    4. Helton 61.8 WAR, 54.2 JAWS. I think the park effect estimates hurt his WAR totals. His career road slash line is Hall worthy .287/.386/.469. Great player.
    5. Manny 69.3 WAR, 39.9 JAWS
    6. Rolen 70.1 WAR, 56.9 JAWS
    7. Abreu 60.2 WAR, 50.9 JAWS. Underrated for most of his career.
    8. Sheffield 60.5 WAR, 49.3 JAWS, 21st among non-pitchers in win probability added. Higher than all batters on this list not named Bonds.

    Next group just missing: Andruw Jones, Jeff Kent, Sammy Sosa, Tim Hudson, Andy Pettite, Billy Wagner

    Shouldn't be in the conversation: Omar Vizquel
    Last edited by cincinnati chili; 11-21-2020 at 09:53 PM. Reason: typo
    Alice Sweet's Tomato Plant

  7. Likes:

    boxseat (11-28-2020),RedsBaron (11-21-2020)

  8. #35
    Member blumj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Northern MA
    Posts
    5,109

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Shane Victorino's walkup song seems like the most fun thing about his career. BobMarley'sThree little birds
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  9. #36
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    38

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    Maybe the best question to ask about each player is this: did the game change because that player was in the league?
    Here is an interesting fact. Barry Bonds leads all players with 688 intentional walks for a career. Number 2 is Albert Pujols with 312. If that isn't a person who changed the game I don't know who is. I will freely admit that Bonds was and probably still is an asshat to the media and probably everyone that he had to deal with but is that a good reason to keep him out of the hall?
    As far as the steroids are concerned, yes he used them but can't you also say that for a long period most players used uppers which were illegal as well. They put Gaylord Perry in the hall and he made a career out of cheating.
    Barry Bonds was the greatest player I have ever watched play and as much as I think he is a jerk I don't think that should have anything to do with admittance into the hall of fame.

  10. #37
    Moderator Kinsm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    3,171

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    400 of Bonds intentional walks came after his 35th birthday, when he put more chemicals into his body than a 1980's racehorse.

    That stat is meaningless as any kind of comparison to other players.

  11. #38
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    11,996

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    With the release of the 2021 Hall of Fame ballot earlier this month, our thoughts turned to the institution of the Hall itself, and particularly this question: Are enough players being inducted? Or too many? What is the right number of players to have in the Hall, anyway?

    There isn't a correct answer to that, of course. Maybe you're a "Big Hall" person, or maybe you like it to be far more selective. Either approach is fine, but without knowing the historic trends of what share of active players at a given time end up getting in, we're sort of shooting in the dark. If we look back through history, we can see if more recent players are getting in at a higher or lower rate -- which might help us answer whether more or fewer players should be inducted.
    https://www.mlb.com/news/hall-of-fam...tion-standards

  12. Likes:

    Edd Roush (11-28-2020),M2 (11-28-2020),RedsManRick (11-28-2020)

  13. #39
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    20

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    I'd put Schilling and Ramirez on my ballot.

  14. Likes:

    Edd Roush (11-28-2020)

  15. #40
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    592

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    After Baines' induction, I see no way to have a more exclusive HOF. Tons of guys were more deserving than him and will be in the future. Keeping guys out that are significantly better than him, yet not at the truly elite level just doesn't seem right.

  16. #41
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    49,394

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67 View Post
    After Baines' induction, I see no way to have a more exclusive HOF. Tons of guys were more deserving than him and will be in the future. Keeping guys out that are significantly better than him, yet not at the truly elite level just doesn't seem right.
    Baines was not voted in by the writers.

  17. #42
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    592

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Baines was not voted in by the writers.
    I know, but he's still a HOFer.

    If the writers are looking at a guy like Andruw Jones (who should be in anyway), how do you allow him to sit on the outside knowing Baines is in?

  18. #43
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    49,394

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67 View Post
    I know, but he's still a HOFer.

    If the writers are looking at a guy like Andruw Jones (who should be in anyway), how do you allow him to sit on the outside knowing Baines is in?
    By saying "We didn't think Harold Baines belonged".

    This is like saying "already got some racist in the hall of fame, guess I should vote for this other racist". Don't twist yourself into knots over something that is very simple: Just because someone else messed up doesn't mean you continue to mess up because they did.

  19. #44
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    592

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    By saying "We didn't think Harold Baines belonged".
    I just couldn't vote that way. If the era committees are going to give special treatment to "their guys" and go the big HOF route, I'm not going to let guys that should be in miss out because they don't have the same connections that someone like Harold Baines has. It's insulting to guys that aren't in, are out of eligibility and are vastly superior to him.

    Edit to your edit: The "already got some racist in the hall of fame, guess I should vote for this other racist" is essentially my stance on steroid users. I know there are users in there already, so I no longer see the point in excluding Bonds, Clemens, et al.
    Last edited by Coopdaddy67; 11-28-2020 at 03:16 PM.

  20. #45
    Member schroomytunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    wilmington n.c.
    Posts
    1,327

    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    My top 4

    1) Omar Vizquel
    2) Manny Ramirez
    3) Gary Sheffield
    4) Curt Schilling


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | cumberlandreds | Gallen5862 | Kinsm | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator