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Thread: 2021 HOF Ballot

  1. #16
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Curt Schilling's career WAR of 79.5 ranks 26th all time in MLB history. There are three dozen starting pitchers with a lower career WAR than Schilling who are already in the Hall of Fame, and this does not take into consideration Schilling's post season dominance.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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  4. #17
    Member Mitri's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Just vote the 3 jerks in and get it over with. They are all deserving. Rolen too, but I'd rather he not get lumped in with that lot.

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  6. #18
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    My ballot;

    1. Barry Bonds
    Yes, he cheated. Put that on the plaque. He still belongs in the Hall.

    2. Roger Clemens
    See entry #1.

    3. Sammy Sosa
    See first two entries.

    4. Scott Rolen
    One of the top five or six 3B of all time. Great player. Great teammate.

    5. Jeff Kent
    One of the top 10 2B to ever play the game. Easy call, IMO.

    6. Manny Ramirez
    How is he not in yet? One of the most feared sluggers in the game for more than a decade. 150+ wRC+. Easy call.

    7. Gary Sheffield
    See Ramirez, Manny. When your most similar hitter is Chipper Jones, you should be in the Hall. Sheffield was one of the guys I feared at the plate.

    8. Todd Helton
    This is a tough call. The good defense (even at a poor position) helps. So does the batting title. In the end, he's a close call who just squeaks in. (He's this Gen X's Tony Perez.)

    Next in line, for me, was Schilling, who, IMO, just misses. He's better than some who've been enshrined, but not at the level I'd want for my Hall. He'll make it in, of course. The narrative around the bloody sock is likely too strong and masks some of his pedestrian numbers.

    Andruw Jones was also a hard call-- dominant for a decade, then he fell off the cliff. Bobby Abreu, Andy Pettitte, and Billy Wagner fell just short as well.
    I agree with this list. I'd add Schilling and Wagner. If I had to drop anyone off it would be Helton. The other 9 should all be in IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  8. #19
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    5 best Reds who aren't in the Hall of Fame

    https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/reds-b...e-hall-of-fame

  9. #20
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    5 best Reds who aren't in the Hall of Fame

    https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/reds-b...e-hall-of-fame
    The HOF should be allowed to add Pete Rose if it would help their business by convincing more of you guys to go there and or buy their products
    Last edited by blumj; 11-17-2020 at 09:22 PM.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  10. #21
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    Curt Schilling's career WAR of 79.5 ranks 26th all time in MLB history. There are three dozen starting pitchers with a lower career WAR than Schilling who are already in the Hall of Fame, and this does not take into consideration Schilling's post season dominance.
    If not for Johnson's legendary 2001 and 2002, he'd have 2 Cy Young awards under his belt too.

    If I had to pick any pitcher of the past 50 years to start in a decisive game, it's Schilling.

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  12. #22
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67 View Post
    If I had to pick any pitcher of the past 50 years to start in a decisive game, it's Schilling.
    Schilling was very good in the post-season, no doubt. But he wouldn't even be my first pick on most of his teams. Just off the top of my head, I can think of several pitchers who were just as good if not better in the post-season and who I'd be more comfortable with as my starter:

    Randy Johnson
    John Smoltz
    Tom Glavine
    Greg Maddux
    Andy Pettitte
    Madison Bumgarner
    Josh Beckett
    Roy Halladay
    Orel Hershiser
    Stephen Strasburg

  13. #23
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Schilling was very good in the post-season, no doubt. But he wouldn't even be my first pick on most of his teams. Just off the top of my head, I can think of several pitchers who were just as good if not better in the post-season and who I'd be more comfortable with as my starter:

    Randy Johnson
    John Smoltz
    Tom Glavine
    Greg Maddux
    Andy Pettitte
    Madison Bumgarner
    Josh Beckett
    Roy Halladay
    Orel Hershiser
    Stephen Strasburg
    All those pitchers were obviously very good and in most cases great, BUT:
    Tom Glavine went 14-16 in the post-season, a .467%, 3.30 ERA and 1.273 WHIP in 218 innings.
    Greg Maddux went 11-14 .440%, 3.27 ERA, 1.242 WHIP in 198 innings.
    Andy Pettitte went 19-11 .633%, 3.81 ERA, 1.305 WHIP in 276 innings.
    Orel Hershiser went 8-3 .727%, 2.59 ERA, 1.106 WHIP in 132 innings.
    Randy Johnson went 7-9 .438%, 3.50 ERA, 1.140 WHIP in 121 innings.
    John Smoltz went 15-4 .789%, 2.67 ERA, 1.144 WHIP in 209 innings.
    Curt Schilling went 11-2 .846%, 2.23 ERA, 0.968 WHIP in 133 innings.
    Bumgarner, Halladay and Strasburg do have post season numbers that in some respects are better than Schilling, but in significantly fewer innings [in order 102 innings, 38 innings and 55 innings].
    Neither Schilling nor Smoltz was the greatest pitcher of their generation, but that duo were the two greatest post-season pitchers of their generation.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  14. #24
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Id only vote for Bonds I think.

  15. #25
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    You didn't even mention Pedro
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

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  17. #26
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    The reason Curt Schillling isn't in the HOFis because the voters hate him.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  18. #27
    Member podgejeff_'s Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    We all know Curt Schilling is no household name like Rube Marquard or Jessie Haines.

    But yeah, a pitcher with a career WAR next to Pete Rose and Joe Dimaggio surely shouldn't get in.

  19. #28
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    I'd like Schilling to get in so that I could stop saying nice things about his accomplishments on the field and focus more squarely on "forget that guy."
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

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  21. #29
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I'd like Schilling to get in so that I could stop saying nice things about his accomplishments on the field and focus more squarely on "forget that guy."
    Years ago Bill James noted that the only thing keeping Enos Slaughter's name "alive" was discussion as to whether or not he should be in the Hall of Fame, and that, with his induction, he would no longer be a topic of discussion. That was largely true.
    For that matter, if Shoeless Joe Jackson had not been a "Black Sox," he would be largely forgotten despite his being a great hitter.
    It's not really a reason to induct someone into the HOF if he doesn't deserve it, but if you want to forget a borderline player putting him in the HOF may result in that.
    I believe Schilling should be in the HOF. His career is largely comparable to that of his contemporary John Smoltz, who went in on the first ballot.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  22. #30
    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 HOF Ballot

    "Bonds says he never knowingly took performance-enhancing drugs."

    If this is the case, the only HOF he should be in is dumbest person alive.

    Omar Vizquel and Scott Rolen would be on my ballot, and that's it.


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