Rule 5 draft

[mth123]

That's not the worst case, mth.

The worst case is believing a guy has some upside and watching him cost the Reds games they could have won, while a more effective relief arm sits in AAA, on the free agent pile, or in another team's bullpen.

The worst case is the heightened risk of injury for other relievers when they have to pick up his slack.

The worst case is stashing him on the roster for months and overworking other, better relievers on this team to keep his arm in the system.

The worst case is using a roster spot like a vestigial organ-- it's in there, but none of us are quite sure why.

The worst case is the roster manipulation that may cost actual, decent high-floor guys to keep him. Keeping a guy without an option means others have to be released or sent through waivers so that help might arrive.

You're angry because the Reds didn't risk all of this for what-- the 17th-best unprotected bullpen arm from low A?

I get gambling, but this is a scratch-off ticket at best. Is there upside possible? Sure, once in a generation. Maybe you make that gamble if you've got a dominant workhorse pen or four really good outfielders. Maybe you make that move if you have two southpaws already and see a third one you might use or a utility glove-first guy in a 26-man roster. You definitely make that move if you're planning on sucking for the season and don't much care about your wins and losses. In the spot the Reds are now, however?

Nah.

But that same risk exists for any of the pitchers outside the top 8. Deleon, Romano, Santillan, they all have that risk. They don't get used and the other guys get overworked, other than getting a real established solid guy, everybody on teh roster has that risk. It existed with Reed, Stephenson, Raley, Alaniz, Kuhnel and whole bunch of other guys who washed out. It's the nature of the beast. Theyhave five spots to fill. Ramirez probably gets one, and he has that same risk. They probably sign a couole guys, but depending how deep in teh gutter they go, they may or may not have that risk. The in house minor leaguers, heck yes they have that risk.

They don't have to keep anyone. Your argument makes no sense. If he gets people out in spring training, there is probably room in the 5 open spots to see what happens. If he stops getting people out, send him away. Doesn't that same thing happen with guys they bring in every year, most of whom are retreads with no upside. Short of going out and signing 5 established solid relievers (or a starter and 4 relievers), there is room to take a look at somebody. I know I'm noy excieted abiut Hoffman, Romano, Bailey, Deleon or Ramirez. I'd rather take a 22 year old who throws hard and has doen well at lower levels then see what happens. It probably fails, but the Reds chose to create a big hole, so now they need to turn over every rock to fill it. If they sign say one guys and go with the in house dudes to fill teh rest, thast's a fail. If tehy sign two guys, unless they are at Iggy and Bradley's caliber, that's a fail.

As for where the team is, 75 to 80 wins as currently constructed.

[Bill]

I know everyone has a right to their own opinion but it's hard for me to understand how guys that are always complaining about the last man on the bench and/or the last man at the back of the bullpen being AAAA players, are actually upset that the Reds decided not to draft a Rule V player today.

Doubt anyone is upset. Disappointed, sure, perhaps even annoyed. Small market teams must use every opportunity to obtain talent at a reasonable cost, particularly when there is a dearth of talent (and players) on the roster. That includes taking a few chances on both perceived AAAA players on the bench and Rule 5 guys.

Now what is upsetting is giving 6 mill to no hit shortstops and large contracts to DH's and guys on the wrong side of 30.

[M2]

As for where the team is, 75 to 80 wins as currently constructed.

Except it's under construction. Almost 25% of the 40-man roster has yet to be be acquired. Tell me who all those players are and then we can start speculating about their chances as currently constructed. All that happened with Rule V is they decided not to use those particular cheap building materials. If they want to take a flyer on a younger guy on the roster, it really should be someone they can option. And they've been pretty up front about looking for guys with options they can shuffle if need be.

[Bourgeois Zee]

But that same risk exists for any of the pitchers outside teh top 8. Deleon, Romano, Santillan, they all have that risk. They don't get used and teh other guys get overworked, other than getting a real established solid guy, everybody on teh roster has that risk. It existed with Reed, Stephenson, Raley, Alaniz, Kuhnel and whole bunch of other guys who washed out. It's the nature of the beast. Theyhave five spots to fill. Ramirez probably gets one, and he has that same risk. They probably sign a couole guys, but depending how deep in teh gutter they go, they may or may not have that risk. The in house minor leaguers, heck yes they have that risk.

They don't have to keep anyone.

Right. They've got all the no option, maybe they suck guys they can stand-- and more. Why add another?

[Bourgeois Zee]

I know I'm noy excieted abiut Hoffman, Romano, Bailey, Deleon or Ramirez. I'd rather take a 22 year old who throws hard and has doen well at lower levels then see what happens.

Well, that's almost assuredly a really crappy idea.

[REDREAD]

Well, that's almost assuredly a really crappy idea.

Well, I'm not upset that they passed on Rule V guys, but mth has a good point.
Let's say the rule V pitcher with raw skills is not ready in 2021. He might be ready in 2022 or a year in the future. So the Reds could use him as a mopup guy in 2021, or they can work out a deal with the team they claimed him from to send him to the minors or they can cut him lose.

I know some people are still think we are going to contend in 2021, and I don't want to debate that. However, mth and I assume that we are not going to contend, so we are less worried about carrying a minor leaguer as our 13th pitcher if he has a potential future. I think we need to add 5 pitchers to our staff (in house suspects like Romano may fill that role).. So would you rather have Romano or a rule V guy with a potential future as your 13th pitcher. I don't mean to speak for
mth, but I think that's his point. We all know the Reds aren't going to sign 5 "Sure things" this winter.

If the Reds did not see anyone in the Rule V pool with a future and passed, then I understand that. However, we collect longshots all the time, I understand why people are asking.. Why not add another body to spring training and see what happens?

[Bourgeois Zee]

Well, I'm not upset that they passed on Rule V guys, but mth has a good point.
Let's say the rule V pitcher with raw skills is not ready in 2021. He might be ready in 2022 or a year in the future. So the Reds could use him as a mopup guy in 2021, or they can work out a deal with the team they claimed him from to send him to the minors or they can cut him lose.

I know some people are still think we are going to contend in 2021, and I don't want to debate that. However, mth and I assume that we are not going to contend, so we are less worried about carrying a minor leaguer as our 13th pitcher if he has a potential future. I think we need to add 5 pitchers to our staff (in house suspects like Romano may fill that role).. So would you rather have Romano or a rule V guy with a potential future as your 13th pitcher. I don't mean to speak for
mth, but I think that's his point. We all know the Reds aren't going to sign 5 "Sure things" this winter.

If the Reds did not see anyone in the Rule V pool with a future and passed, then I understand that. However, we collect longshots all the time, I understand why people are asking.. Why not add another body to spring training and see what happens?

If you don't believe they're going to contend, it's defensible to carry a Rule 5 guy.

Obviously, the Reds think differently.

[Bill]

If the Reds intend to add several players with options remaining, it seems they would likely do so through trading a vet such as Gray or making claims on the waiver wire as the season approaches, neither of which suggest contending.

[mth123]

Except it's under construction. Almost 25% of the 40-man roster has yet to be be acquired. Tell me who all those players are and then we can start speculating about their chances as currently constructed. All that happened with Rule V is they decided not to use those particular cheap building materials. If they want to take a flyer on a younger guy on the roster, it really should be someone they can option. And they've been pretty up front about looking for guys with options they can shuffle if need be.

They'll sign A SS that might add 3 wins in a best case scenario. The rest will be scrap heap fodder IMO.

[Bourgeois Zee]

If the Reds intend to add several players with options remaining, it seems they would likely do so through trading a vet such as Gray or making claims on the waiver wire as the season approaches, neither of which suggest contending.

Or signing a variety of non-tender candidates mixed with minor league contracts and scrap heap pickups.

[MikeS21]

QUESTION: Did anyone lose any sleep because the Reds lost Mac Sceroler in the Rule 5 Draft? Then why are we upset because the Reds didn’t choose another “Mac Sceroler” to take up room on the roster? There’s probably two or three dozen “Mac Sceroler’s” that the Reds could sign, without tying their hands on the roster.

[Bruce Berenyi]

who can forget the great Moe Drabowski drafted by the reds in rule 5 what a heist

[camisadelgolf]

Despite having a ton of 40-man roster space, the Reds didn't draft anyone in the Major League portion of the Rule 5 draft. Since then, they have added the following:
RHP Edgar E. Garcia
C Deivy Grullon
OF Scott Heineman
LHP Cionel Perez
RHP Hector Perez
RHP Art Warren

[Bourgeois Zee]

Despite having a ton of 40-man roster space, the Reds didn't draft anyone in the Major League portion of the Rule 5 draft. Since then, they have added the following:
RHP Edgar E. Garcia
C Deivy Grullon
OF Scott Heineman
LHP Cionel Perez
RHP Hector Perez
RHP Art Warren

I think all these guys have options remaining.

Nice moves from Krall, IMO, as all of them should see some time in Cincinnati this year except, perhaps, Grullon.

[Kinsm]

A quick peak at how the Rule 5 selections are faring in Spring Camps:

*Remember, none of these players can be optioned this season - they either must be offered back to their original team, traded to a new team, or kept on the active roster or active DL all year.

Selection#) Team Selecting: Player, Pos (Team Selected from)

1) Pirates: Jose Soriano, RHP (Angels) - has been placed on the Pirates 60 Day DL (had TJS last February)
2) Rangers: Brett de Geus, RHP (Dodgers) - has looked sharp in 4 IP with the Rangers thus far (the 23 yrold has never played above A+)
3) Tigers: Akil Baddoo, OF (Twins) - has hit well in 31 PA's with the Tigers thus far (the 22 yrold has never played above A+)
4) Red Sox: Garrett Whitlock, RHP (Yankees) - has pitched well in 6 IP with the Red Sox thus far
5) Orioles: Mac Sceroler, RHP (Reds) - has pitched poorly in 2 1/3 IP with the Orioles thus far
6) Marlins: Zach Pop, RHP (Orioles) - has only seen action in 2 IP with the Marlins thus far, only 1 baserunner allowed
7) Rockies: Jordan Sheffield, RHP (Dodgers) - has looked wishy washy in 4 IP with the Rockies thus far
8) Angels: Jose Rivera, RHP (Astros) - is pitching in B games with the Angels - late arrival to camp due to visa issues
9) Pirates: Luis Oviedo, RHP (Indians) - has yet to make his Pirates spring debut
10) Mariners: Will Vest, RHP (Tigers) - has allowed 7 ER in 6 1/3 IP with the Mariners thus far
11) Reds: Kyle Holder, SS (Yankees) - has not fared well in 22 PA's with the Reds thus far
12) Giants: Dedniel Nunez, RHP (Mets) - has not pitched well in 3 1/3 IP with the Giants thus far
13) Marlins: Paul Campbell, RHP (Rays) - made his delayed spring debut yesterday
14) Cubs: Gray Fenter, RHP (Orioles) - he was returned to the Orioles after only pitching 1 IP with the Cubs
15) Indians: Trevor Stephan, RHP (Yankees) - has pitched well in 5 IP with the Indians thus far
16) A's: Ka'ai Tom, CF (Indians) - made his delayed spring debut two days ago
17) Orioles: Tyler Wells, RHP (Twins) - has not looked great in his 4 IP with the Orioles thus far
18) A's: Dany Jimenez, RHP (Blue Jays) - he was returned to the Blue Jays after allowing 2 ER in 3 IP with the A's