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Thread: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephenson

  1. #61
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    And Tyler Mahle.

    Stephenson actually wasn't all that special performance-wise in the minors (3.77 ERA, 1.249 WHIP). He had a great 2013 season and then rode on those fumes.
    I'll say this much, though - that 2013 season for Stephenson, numbers aside, was the best Reds prospect I've ever seen. He *looked* better than Jay Bruce did when he was the #1 prospect in baseball and hit the absolute snot out of the ball. Unfortunately he was never really the same guy after that. Velo declined, he lost the consistency with the curveball (that he eventually scrapped for a slider), and his fastball command disappeared.

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  4. #62
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    If Hoffman had minor league options I’d like the deal better.

    But his MLB numbers are concerning. I’ve read comparisons to Sims, but Lucas was able to work things out in AAA before advancing to Reds’ bullpen. Maybe Hoffman will clear waivers to get some AAA time.

    Stephenson was IL’d last year and never got on track. But he showed bullpen ability in 2019. Slider is effective when he’s on.

    Reds will save a little money with Bob Steve entering arbitration, but overall I don’t think much of this trade. Hope it turns out better than I expect. Maybe the young prospect will work out in the long run.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-26-2020 at 09:47 AM.

  5. #63
    TyrannoSuarez Wrecks WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    I look at this as the Reds acquiring a 7th pick in the 2020 draft. Anything beyond that is icing on the cake.
    Gratitude + Forgiveness = Happiness

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  7. #64
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    I look at this as the Reds acquiring a 7th pick in the 2020 draft. Anything beyond that is icing on the cake.
    This is precisely it. Hoffman is a spring training flier.

    The reds wanted Case in the 2020 draft. Clearly they have targeted him for awhile.

    People complaining about Hoffman are missing the forest for the trees.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  9. #65
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    Remember when Hoffman and Aaron Sanchez were going to front the Blue Jays rotation for years? Good times. And something to consider when you're worried about whether to trade pitching "prospects."
    Gratitude + Forgiveness = Happiness

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  10. #66
    Member Rojo Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    I saw Stephenson pitch for Bats in Durham in 2016. His fastball was flat, predictable, and the Bulls were squaring him up all night. I knew then he wasn’t going to be a star.

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  12. #67
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    I'm a skeptic when it comes to thinking a pitching coach or an organization can fix a guy. It happens, but fails 99% of the time. The reds like Hoffman's spin rate and stuff and think they can work with him. Get him out of Colorado where breaking balls don't break and who knows? Seems like Stephenson was going to be non-tendered anyway. They got a couple of hopes for a lost cause IMO. They don't really have an abundance of guys ready to help. Adding Hoffman to the mix won't hurt anything.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  14. #68
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    This is precisely it. Hoffman is a spring training flier.

    The reds wanted Case in the 2020 draft. Clearly they have targeted him for awhile.

    People complaining about Hoffman are missing the forest for the trees.
    Reds are talking about Hoffman, with a 6.40 lifetime ERA, as a potential fifth starter or, otherwise, bullpen piece. Forgive me if I’m not particularly happy with that.

    As for Williams, Reds say they wanted him in the draft. He wasn’t highly touted. Articles say he didn’t make BA’s top 500 or Pipieline’s top 200 draft prospects. Just a little surprised there was apparently all that competition for him.

    I see a lot of spin here. Hope it works out.

  15. #69
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Reds are talking about Hoffman, with a 6.40 lifetime ERA, as a potential fifth starter or, otherwise, bullpen piece. Forgive me if I’m not particularly happy with that.

    As for Williams, Reds say they wanted him in the draft. He wasn’t highly touted. Articles say he didn’t make BA’s top 500 or Pipieline’s top 200 draft prospects. Just a little surprised there was apparently all that competition for him.

    I see a lot of spin here. Hope it works out.
    The Reds (Krall) said they told Hoffman to be ready to compete for a bullpen spot or 5th starter spot. What should they have told him? “You suck, we actually wanted the kid and figured we’d give you a shot in spring training. k Thanks bye!”

    The top 200 thing is pretty meaningless. He was a high school arm from colorado. There was this, uh, global pandemic which prevented scouts and BA from seeing him during his senior season. The Reds clearly have an edge with pitching right now, they feel strongly about Case. He has a very high spin rate on his fastball.

    At the end of the day they traded a bad reliever and a nothing outfield prospect for a flawed major league pitcher who they will try to fix and an arm they have liked for some time.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  16. #70
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I'll say this much, though - that 2013 season for Stephenson, numbers aside, was the best Reds prospect I've ever seen. He *looked* better than Jay Bruce did when he was the #1 prospect in baseball and hit the absolute snot out of the ball. Unfortunately he was never really the same guy after that. Velo declined, he lost the consistency with the curveball (that he eventually scrapped for a slider), and his fastball command disappeared.
    Absolutely. He was damn near magical that season.
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  17. #71
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    the reds wanted case williams so bad that they passed on him in the third round? i mean, i've never heard of the kid so maybe he's great. but if they targeted him, weird move to pass him over as late as the third round of a six-round draft.

    big deal? no. just found that odd.

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  19. #72
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    The Reds (Krall) said they told Hoffman to be ready to compete for a bullpen spot or 5th starter spot. What should they have told him? “You suck, we actually wanted the kid and figured we’d give you a shot in spring training. k Thanks bye!”

    The top 200 thing is pretty meaningless. He was a high school arm from colorado. There was this, uh, global pandemic which prevented scouts and BA from seeing him during his senior season. The Reds clearly have an edge with pitching right now, they feel strongly about Case. He has a very high spin rate on his fastball.

    At the end of the day they traded a bad reliever and a nothing outfield prospect for a flawed major league pitcher who they will try to fix and an arm they have liked for some time.

    I see it as saving a few hundred thousand, parting with a reliever who might have still contributed, for a couple of lottery tickets. With one of the lotteries maybe conducted on the big league 2021 Reds.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-26-2020 at 11:54 AM.

  20. #73
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    You’re buying into the spin. Fair enough, I do frequently, we all do on occasion.

    I see it as saving a few hundred thousand dollars, parting with a reliever who might have still contributed, for a couple of lottery tickets, with one of the lotteries possibly being conducted on the big league Reds.
    Hoffman and Stephenson are both lottery tickets at this point.

    Out of Coors, Hoffman has a 4.86 ERA.

    It's a coin flip for me on the 2 of them but I will prefer giving Hoffman a look. Take him out of Coors and let Boddy and Friends check him out. I was done with Stephenson. There were many calls to DFA Robert this season...I think you are giving him too much credit. I don't expect Hoffman or Stephenson to do much of anything this year.

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  22. #74
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    Since this kid was pitching at a high school in Colorado, it stands to reason that the Rockies may have had a closer eye on him than most other clubs. Evidently, the Reds also had heard of him, and scouted him. I'm sure Body gave his opinion, and that's why the Reds were interested.

    It's quite possible that had Case Williams had a full senior year unaffected by a pandemic, and if scouting were at normal levels, he very well could have gone in Rounds 1-2 in a normal draft. We'll never know.
    “I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane

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  24. #75
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    Re: Reds acquiring Jeff Hoffman and Case Williams from the Rockies for Robert Stephen

    I'm viewing the development plan with Hoffman similar to Tejay Antone. Antone was a fairly non-descript minor leaguer numbers wise that the Reds kept working with and told us he was going to be great at the major league level and he was.

    Yes, they have worked with him briefly in the off-season, but its different when you are working together 365 days a year, with weekly programs, check points, video analysis, feedback. Hoffman never got this kind of in season program.

    Anyways, the Reds development staff sees something in them, and am interested to find out if they can find a repeatable pattern of finding under the radar guys like this and shine them up into real major leaguers. If they are right, again, its going to be a tell tale sign of fun things to come with this off field staff.

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