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Thread: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

  1. #151
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The Reds have traded Trammell, Puig, VanMeter, Naughton, Fairchild, Salvador, Bailey, Downs, Gray, Rainey, Roark, and R. Stephenson in less than 24 months.

    They now have only Kyle Farmer, Jeff Hoffman, Case Williams resulting from those trades left in the organization.
    It's frustrating to see this. I understand that no player on this list is Mike Trout but it is consistently obvious that this team has little idea of how to build a winning team for the present and/or future.


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  3. #152
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The Reds have traded Trammell, Puig, VanMeter, Naughton, Fairchild, Salvador, Bailey, Downs, Gray, Rainey, Roark, and R. Stephenson in less than 24 months.

    They now have only Kyle Farmer, Jeff Hoffman, Case Williams resulting from those trades left in the organization.
    But, be honest with yourself, it was worth it. When you get the chance to unload lots of talent for two middling seasons and being swept out of a diluted playoffs, you don't ask questions.

    (I actually don't have many issues with the front office over the past few seasons.)

  4. #153
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The Reds have traded Trammell, Puig, VanMeter, Naughton, Fairchild, Salvador, Bailey, Downs, Gray, Rainey, Roark, and R. Stephenson in less than 24 months.

    They now have only Kyle Farmer, Jeff Hoffman, Case Williams resulting from those trades left in the organization.
    And a Cy Young award for eternity.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  6. #154
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    I think the non-tenders is a market shift. All these guys will sign big league deals for less money and the glut will bring down the price of the other free agents and arbitration guys who are left as well. This will result in bringing the overall salary down. A lot of interchangeable parts were let go with a few guys who might be more than that. I think Bradely was one of those guys. He's the one I most dislike non-tendering.

    The middle class of basbeball will take a big hit here. Guys like Howie Kendrick and Marwin Gonzalez probably lost a lot of leverage (and money) today.

    With so many guys being let go, the colusion talk is probably not far off and the labor war is probably a lot more inevitable after the season. 2021 might be impacted by Covid again and 2022 might be stopped for a strike. It may be a while before we see a full season again.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  8. #155
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    And a Cy Young award for eternity.
    For sure. Bauer for Trammell actually looks good in hindsight. Even the Dodgers trade, I still don't hate all that much. I can see what they were doing.

    Good news from Bobby Nigthengale:

    Bobby Nightengale
    @nightengalejr
    ·
    7m
    Reds are still in a win-now mode. I see it more as a reality check on how much they'll spend this offseason. Needed to free up money to have money to spend.

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  10. #156
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    But, be honest with yourself, it was worth it. When you get the chance to unload lots of talent for two middling seasons and being swept out of a diluted playoffs, you don't ask questions.

    (I actually don't have many issues with the front office over the past few seasons.)
    But, be honest with yourself, where is the loads of talent?

    Not trying to be a jerk either, meant that light heartedly. I think the talent we gave up is vastly overrated by RZ. Half those guys were pending FA. And we should be developing pitchers left and right so who cares if we trade a few that aren’t elite talents.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 12-02-2020 at 11:09 PM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  11. #157
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    And a Cy Young award for eternity.
    A *Cy Young Award for eternity.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
    “You got the pitching, now what?” - Reds fans

  12. #158
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The Reds have traded Trammell, Puig, VanMeter, Naughton, Fairchild, Salvador, Bailey, Downs, Gray, Rainey, Roark, and R. Stephenson in less than 24 months.

    They now have only Kyle Farmer, Jeff Hoffman, Case Williams resulting from those trades left in the organization.
    This ain’t good.

    You trade away kids. You acquire short-term veterans who leave. You have nothing left.

    Reds need to develop more young, controllable good players and use them, rather than trading them.

    Add in some well placed veterans. That’s the way to build a sustainable good team in a market with limited resources.
    Last edited by Kc61; 12-02-2020 at 11:11 PM.

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  14. #159
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    This ain’t good.

    You trade away kids. You acquire short-term veterans who leave. You have nothing left.

    Reds need to develop more young, controllable good players and use them, rather than trading them.

    Add in some well placed veterans. That’s the way to build a sustainable good team in a market with limited resources.
    You gonna build a team around Trammell, Downs, and Gray?
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I agree the NBA is schooling MLB, but Westbrook and Wall kinda suck.
    Lol.

    No.

    Just...no.

    These are two top 20 players in the NBA. One might argue Westbrook is top 10.

    An equivalent trade in baseball would be like Bryce Harper for Max Scherzer. A blockbuster.

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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    You gonna build a team around Trammell, Downs, and Gray?
    Look at the teams that contend regularly. They are constantly churning their middling talent, middling prospects and getting MLB production out of that churning.

    It’s not that the Reds should have held on to them, it’s that they didn’t get much for them. Now the franchise is much more shallow, and has little to show for all the moves over the last two seasons.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
    “You got the pitching, now what?” - Reds fans

  18. #162
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by podgejeff_ View Post
    Lol.

    No.

    Just...no.

    These are two top 20 players in the NBA. One might argue Westbrook is top 10.

    An equivalent trade in baseball would be like Bryce Harper for Max Scherzer. A blockbuster.
    Meh, agree to disagree.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    A *Cy Young Award for eternity.
    Nope.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  19. #163
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by podgejeff_ View Post
    Lol.

    No.

    Just...no.

    These are two top 20 players in the NBA. One might argue Westbrook is top 10.

    An equivalent trade in baseball would be like Bryce Harper for Max Scherzer. A blockbuster.
    Meh, It’s like when the Tigers and Rangers swapped Ian Kinsler for Prince Fielder.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  20. #164
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Guys like Naughton and Fairchild aren't top tier prospects, but that doesn't mean they're not valuable add-on pieces. Instead of adding those guys to a top tier prospect or two to bring back young, controllable talent, the Reds are now left with nothing. Unfortunately, using those 5-30 ranked organization prospects ineffectively has been an ongoing theme.

    My biggest problem continues to be that a big selling point for the Reds post-trade was that these guys weren't rentals. Okay, so it's safe to say you were willing to give up more for them because you viewed them as controllable assets. The market and financial implications of the pandemic have not changed since August 31st, so I really don't want to see that used as an excuse. This entire situation just screams poor management to me. It's almost like they don't have a plan...

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  22. #165
    Member podgejeff_'s Avatar
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Granted, I'm assuming Wall is actually going to return healthy for the first time in how many years.

    And the NBA bubble I'm not really counting.


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