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Thread: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

  1. #166
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I honestly feel like MLB is starting to circle the drain and its mostly self imposed. You've got a Russell Westbrook-John Wall blockbuster trade in the NBA on the same day that every team in baseball dumps useful players, I wonder which is more appealing to the masses.
    MLB, we're not trying anymore.
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  4. #167
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Look at the teams that contend regularly. They are constantly churning their middling talent, middling prospects and getting MLB production out of that churning.

    It’s not that the Reds should have held on to them, it’s that they didn’t get much for them. Now the franchise is much more shallow, and has little to show for all the moves over the last two seasons.
    I mean they got the NL Cy Young winner out of Trammell whose stock keeps falling and was traded again. I won’t argue that the LAD trade wasn’t a poor move, I’ll admit I liked it at the time but that’s looking like a misestimation on my part. Let’s also not act like every other deal has been of the same variety of wrong. Outside of that deal we have given up middling talent. And it’s still TBD if Downs and Gray ever become more than middling talent or just got the benefit of the LAD hype machine.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  5. #168
    Member podgejeff_'s Avatar
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    I can't imagine the damage MLB is going to do to itself coming back from covidworld to another baseball strike.

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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    You gonna build a team around Trammell, Downs, and Gray?
    No, only Gray. One man team. A pitcher. Lot of balls will get through the infield.
    Last edited by Kc61; 12-02-2020 at 11:53 PM.

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  9. #170
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    I suppose we'll find out which teams actually care when the FA action starts. Some will emerge with better than what they cut. Others will be squeezing a dime between their knees because they dare not part with it. The Reds had better be the former.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

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  11. #171
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67 View Post
    Guys like Naughton and Fairchild aren't top tier prospects, but that doesn't mean they're not valuable add-on pieces. Instead of adding those guys to a top tier prospect or two to bring back young, controllable talent, the Reds are now left with nothing. Unfortunately, using those 5-30 ranked organization prospects ineffectively has been an ongoing theme.

    My biggest problem continues to be that a big selling point for the Reds post-trade was that these guys weren't rentals. Okay, so it's safe to say you were willing to give up more for them because you viewed them as controllable assets. The market and financial implications of the pandemic have not changed since August 31st, so I really don't want to see that used as an excuse. This entire situation just screams poor management to me. It's almost like they don't have a plan...
    I wouldn’t be surprised if the plan was to fall backwards into the expanded playoffs and hope to get lucky. And I really hope they don’t permanently expand the playoffs (not only because it sucks just in its own right), but because I imagine that’ll be their strategy every year for the rest of time if that’s an option.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    When it comes to crow, I'd like nothing more than to eat Dick's all season long and into the postseason.

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  13. #172
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67 View Post
    Guys like Naughton and Fairchild aren't top tier prospects, but that doesn't mean they're not valuable add-on pieces. Instead of adding those guys to a top tier prospect or two to bring back young, controllable talent, the Reds are now left with nothing. Unfortunately, using those 5-30 ranked organization prospects ineffectively has been an ongoing theme.

    My biggest problem continues to be that a big selling point for the Reds post-trade was that these guys weren't rentals. Okay, so it's safe to say you were willing to give up more for them because you viewed them as controllable assets. The market and financial implications of the pandemic have not changed since August 31st, so I really don't want to see that used as an excuse. This entire situation just screams poor management to me. It's almost like they don't have a plan...
    Well, if they use the freed up money to grab released assets at depressed prices instead of paying their guys above market price when they don’t have to that is great management. But I suppose they plan to cry poor like everyone else.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 12-02-2020 at 11:57 PM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Well, if they use the freed up money to grab released assets at depressed prices instead of paying their guys above market price when they don’t have to that is great management. But I suppose they plan to cry poor like everyone else.
    Yeah. I'm expecting a lot of "we were in on a lot of guys, but..." from Reds management.

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  17. #174
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Well, if they used the freed up money to grab released assets at depressed prices instead of paying their guys above market price when they don’t have to that is great management. But I suppose they plan to cry poor like everyone else.
    I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt at the moment. Yet if they go full chintz that's going to inform how much I care about this team. I really need there to be a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow instead of a pile of guano.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

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  19. #175
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt at the moment. Yet if they go full chintz that's going to inform how much I care about this team. I really need there to be a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow instead of a pile of guano.
    Yeah I agree. I’m certainly not saying it’s an elaborate plan by management. But at the moment, cutting your guys that look to be overpaid is smart management in itself.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  20. #176
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    I’m all for roster churn. Incremental change is ok. I’ll withhold comment till I see who they sign to fill out the 40 man roster. If the 10 guys they end up with a better group or a better fit, then ok. But if it’s flotsam and jetsam (I think they played for the Mariners), then not so ok. This is a critical test for the front office.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

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  22. #177
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The Reds have traded Trammell, Puig, VanMeter, Naughton, Fairchild, Salvador, Bailey, Downs, Gray, Rainey, Roark, and R. Stephenson in less than 24 months.

    They now have only Kyle Farmer, Jeff Hoffman, Case Williams resulting from those trades left in the organization.
    No way am I losing one second of sleep over the December '18 loss of Bailey, Downs, Gray and Rainey to the Dodgers and Nats, respectively. Given the state of the organization at the time - namely, the MLB roster - the aforementioned deals represented an acknowledgement of an abject failure of an organizational plan, which was promptly tossed into the trash can. That, in of itself, was huge, and the first step toward the road to respectability for the franchise.

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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    No way am I losing one second of sleep over the December '18 loss of Bailey, Downs, Gray and Rainey to the Dodgers and Nats, respectively. Given the state of the organization at the time - namely, the MLB roster - the aforementioned deals represented an acknowledgement of an abject failure of an organizational plan, which was promptly tossed into the trash can. That, in of itself, was huge, and the first step toward the road to respectability for the franchise.

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    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
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  26. #179
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    No way am I losing one second of sleep over the December '18 loss of Bailey, Downs, Gray and Rainey to the Dodgers and Nats, respectively. Given the state of the organization at the time - namely, the MLB roster - the aforementioned deals represented an acknowledgement of an abject failure of an organizational plan, which was promptly tossed into the trash can. That, in of itself, was huge, and the first step toward the road to respectability for the franchise.

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    Just moved too a side road.

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  28. #180
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

    This is pathetic.
    I'm just going to go find a cash machine.


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