Non-tender situation and moves for 2020-21

[MG NorCal]

The logic behind non-tendering Casali seems to be that Stephenson is ready and cheaper. I think Casali's value exceeds the amount he is due in arbitration. Further, Stephenson has options and going into spring training with three ML caliber catchers is not a problem. Moreover, another team is likely to need catching help before the season starts and may come calling. If saving money is the imperative, I prefer non-tendering Goodwin.

Barnhart helped the team with his defense, but certainly not his offense. Casali helped his pitchers with his game calling. Just ask them. Can Stephenson optimize the pitching, without Bauer? Let's hope so. Meanwhile Casali had an OBP of .366, Slugged .500, had an OPS of .866 (second on the team), and an OPS+ 126 this year. Keep all three, and see what happens in the Spring.

[podgejeff_]

I keep Casali, bring up Stephenson, trade Barnhart.

The Rockies would take Barnhart. Their catching has just been putrid. And playing in Colorado would keep his offense relatively the same.

[Kc61]

Barnhart helped the team with his defense, but certainly not his offense. Casali helped his pitchers with his game calling. Just ask them. Can Stephenson optimize the pitching, without Bauer? Let's hope so. Meanwhile Casali had an OBP of .366, Slugged .500, had an OPS of .866 (second on the team), and an OPS+ 126 this year. Keep all three, and see what happens in the Spring.

Look at Casali’s splits. His offensive prowess is against LHP.

But if Reds are going to carry Tyler Stephenson, he’s a RH power hitter. He should play against LHP.

There’s a redundancy.

You can keep two RHH catchers, but it’s less compelling to keep Casali when there’s a clear redundancy in his area of strength. Or maybe Tyler isn’t ready and Reds want him at AAA.

All this goes into the equation in considering catching for 2021.

[RedTeamGo!]

Sign Realmuto and call it a day.

In the real world: I think Casali is gone. Stephenson and Tucker should be catching duo moving forward. Use Stephenson against all LHP and a few starts against RHP here and there. Make sure Stephenson gets at least 50-60 starts behind the dish and use him as a DH/pinch hitter otherwise.

Seems pretty simple.

[podgejeff_]

Look at Casali’s splits. His offensive prowess is against LHP.

But if Reds are going to carry Tyler Stephenson, he’s a RH power hitter. He should play against LHP.

There’s a redundancy.

You can keep two RHH catchers, but it’s less compelling to keep Casali when there’s a clear redundancy in his area of strength. Or maybe Tyler isn’t ready and Reds want him at AAA.

All this goes into the equation in considering catching for 2021.

Tucker Barnhart's splits show that he doesn't hit RHP or LHP. He can hit RHP marginally better than Casali. LHP is no contest.

I'd just start Stephenson against both and use Casali as a backup against LHP for off days. It's time we embrace the real prospect behind the plate. Stephenson's minors splits shows he hits both about the same anyways (it varies year to year).

[Kc61]

Tucker Barnhart's splits show that he doesn't hit RHP or LHP. He can hit RHP marginally better than Casali. LHP is no contest.

You’re making my point.

If Barnhart “can hit RHP marginally better than Casali”

If Tyler Stephenson is the starter, logically including against LHP (he’s a righty slugger)

And if Casali can be non-tendered with no responsibility for his contract (not so for Barnhart)

It seems pretty clear that Reds need to consider moving Curt.

[Ron Madden]

MLB braces for torrent of free agents as Cardinals, other clubs make contract calls on arb-eligible players

While there have been a scarce few free-agent signings already this winter, the forecasted deluge that helped delay activity arrives this week with December and a deadline.

By Wednesday, the Cardinals and 29 other major-league clubs must present contracts for the 2021 season to all arbitration-eligible players. It is the next juncture of the offseason and it’s expected to unleash a torrent of new free agents into the marketplace as teams use the next tool at their disposal to hack costs off their roster. While teams, like the Cardinals, have said an unknown budget during a pandemic has contributed to the stillness of the offseason, the wait for the next wave of free agents to shape the market is also a reason.

The availability of additional players – more players, many more players – will help shape the costs all free agents command, and given the financial stance of most teams executives and agents expect supply to outpace demand.

Adjust your asking price accordingly.

The next 48 hours will be filled with trade talks as teams look to get some lower-cost, off-roster talent in exchange for their arbitration-eligible players.

A mass “non-tendering” short-circuits that market while also increasing the number of available players for free agency. It works two-fold for teams. They are free from the salary-increase handcuffs of arbitration’s precedent system, and they increase the number of players available to depress the cost of some free agents.

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/base...ad978b045.html

[Bourgeois Zee]

You’re making my point.

If Barnhart “can hit RHP marginally better than Casali”

If Tyler Stephenson is the starter, logically including against LHP (he’s a righty slugger)

And if Casali can be non-tendered with no responsibility for his contract (not so for Barnhart)

It seems pretty clear that Reds need to consider moving Curt.

Since Barnhart is far more expensive and the production is the same, why wouldn't you keep the cheaper option?

[Kc61]

Since Barnhart is far more expensive and the production is the same, why wouldn't you keep the cheaper option?

To summarize -

1. Because Casali can be non-tendered with no financial responsibility for the Reds. Barnhart cannot. If someone offers a good deal accepting Tucker’s $4 million guaranteed salary next year, I’d consider it. IMO most teams would ask Reds to eat some of the salary.

2. Because there’s a redundancy between Casali (strength is hitting lefties) and Tyler Stephensons (RHH with power, needs to face lefties).

If someone loves Barnhart and will pay a full price for him, sure, I’d trade him instead.

[Mitri]

To summarize -

1. Because Casali can be non-tendered with no financial responsibility for the Reds. Barnhart cannot. If someone offers a good deal accepting Tucker’s $4 million guaranteed salary next year, I’d consider it. IMO most teams would ask Reds to eat some of the salary.

2. Because there’s a redundancy between Casali (strength is hitting lefties) and Tyler Stephensons (RHH with power, needs to face lefties).

If someone loves Barnhart and will pay a full price for him, sure, I’d trade him instead.

I think that pretty much covers it. If a team offers to take on all of Barnhart's salary, he's a goner. Otherwise, it probably makes sense to keep him another year and offer the buyout next offseason.

Reds will save a couple of million moving Barnhart, but if it were even money I think they'd prefer to keep Tucker. Casali does have an extra year of cheap(ish) control but it's a close call. It really is a tossup.

[podgejeff_]

I think that pretty much covers it. If a team offers to take on all of Barnhart's salary, he's a goner. Otherwise, it probably makes sense to keep him another year and offer the buyout next offseason.

Reds will save a couple of million moving Barnhart, but if it were even money I think they'd prefer to keep Tucker. Casali does have an extra year of cheap(ish) control but it's a close call. It really is a tossup.

Ultimately I don't care which one gets moved.

I just don't want either of them providing an excuse for why Stephenson doesn't play more.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Reds will save a couple of million moving Barnhart, but if it were even money I think they'd prefer to keep Tucker.

Why?

[podgejeff_]

Why?

Probably something to do with intangibles and clubhouse personality unofficially. Everybody seems to like Barnhart.

[Bourgeois Zee]

To summarize -

1. Because Casali can be non-tendered with no financial responsibility for the Reds. Barnhart cannot. If someone offers a good deal accepting Tucker’s $4 million guaranteed salary next year, I’d consider it. IMO most teams would ask Reds to eat some of the salary.

Ah.

This is where we disagree, then. I see two reasons for this:

1. Barnhart's salary is remarkably cheap for a starting catcher. Teams who have hitting elsewhere and value defense behind the plate should be agreeable to take on his entire $4M contract. Tampa, New York (both squads), Philadelphia, Houston, Toronto-- they're all in various stages of real need in terms of catching and have shown an affinity for elite defense over offensive adequacy at the position. With supply being, basically, Realmuto and McCann and a bunch of veteran backups plus perhaps Gary Sanchez's corpse, Barnhart is a fairly attractive option. (He was worth nearly $6M last year even as an offensive non-entity. Ditto the year before. With a $4M contract, he should be a relative bargain even at full salary next year too.

2. I assume the Reds are going to sign some free agents. Krall has said as much in every interview I've seen. He's looking at a SS and pitching depth, in particular. (Probably pitching depth that still has options.) Trading Barnhart for another team's Robert Stephenson (with options), then, would benefit the Reds and the other team. It'd also save the Reds all of Barnhart's salary while acquiring a needed piece.

[BillDoran]

It's time we embrace the real prospect behind the plate. Stephenson's minors splits shows he hits both about the same anyways (it varies year to year).

Fun words to type/say but not a real strategy for winning baseball games.

Going from a solid combo with great defense and a strong RH bat to wild card rookie doesn't work with the current roster. If they didn't have as much invested, sure, let the youth play. But with Votto, Castellanos, Suarez, Moose, etc. around on significant contracts, you play to win now. Introducing a gaping hole (unless you're certain in what your rookie is) is a big gamble and can blow up in your face, as Garcia did last year.