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Thread: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

  1. #16
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    What if unloading Gray is what they need to do to resign Bauer? How would people feel about it then?


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  3. #17
    Member redsfanmia's Avatar
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    Quote Originally Posted by jwdoc77 View Post
    What if unloading Gray is what they need to do to resign Bauer? How would people feel about it then?
    I’d rather have Gray on a favorable contract.
    When I see the 2016 Reds, I see a 100 loss team and no direction.

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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    If I have a good feeling about anything this offseason, it's my feeling that the Reds aren't signing Bauer.

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  7. #19
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    If I have a good feeling about anything this offseason, it's my feeling that the Reds aren't signing Bauer.
    I agree with you....was just curious as to what the thoughts would be.

  8. #20
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    This is what the Indians do. I’m sure it’s probably not that simple but it sure seems like every year they trade away one or two of their best players, the fans cry around about how their team doesn’t try, then the team proceeds to make the playoffs.

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  10. #21
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    This is what the Indians do. I’m sure it’s probably not that simple but it sure seems like every year they trade away one or two of their best players, the fans cry around about how their team doesn’t try, then the team proceeds to make the playoffs.
    This is a good point.

    The most consistent teams never stop churning roster. They never rebuild because they are always building.

    The Indians, Rays, and A’s are a perfect example of this.

    As reds fans we have been scarred for life. The moment there’s even an idea of trading a good player everyone says “so we’re tearing it all down again????”

    Step back and realize Gray is on the wrong side of 30, missed time last year with a back injury, and is at highest possible value. Let’s say, just for the sake of a thought exercise, the reds are offered the following for Gray:

    Mackenzie Gore
    Ryan Weathers
    Hudson Head

    Could you turn that down? I don’t think I could. I think a Padres/Reds trade makes perfect sense for both teams. Padres have a deep farm, they are not remotely afraid of trading prospects, desperately need another quality SP after Clevinger’s cocaine addled body finally failed him, and are clearly in must win now mode. The reds seem to finally have a clue with developing starting pitching and with the addition of Gore you’re looking at a very near future rotation of Castillo, Gore, Greene, Lodolo, and Mahle/Lorenzen. This is the kind of rotation you can ride for years.

    I’m sorry, but the more I think about trading Gray, the more I like the idea.
    Last edited by RedTeamGo!; 12-05-2020 at 10:13 AM.
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  11. #22
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    It sucks, but I wonder if the Reds foresee a decline for Gray a la Latos, and want to try to cash in before that happens.

    I wonder the same about letting Bradley go.

    Maybe I am giving them to much credit, but when we ask them to be more like the Rays, this is what we are asking for.

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  13. #23
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    I like that Krall is looking at various ways to make the team better, short and long-term. This isn't a slam-dunk playoff roster, but it'd be a bummer to trade Sonny away and watch the team fall back into mediocrity for 21-22. They have invested quite a bit in winning now, and it'd be cool to give Votto a few more shots at playing for a contender. That'd be my preference.

    Gray does check a few of the "sell-high" boxes, though, and if they see a way to improve the long-term outlook of this team without doing too much damage to their chances in 2021, it's worth a look. I think he'd have to bring back a player ready to contribute now, either in the rotation up the middle, and another solid prospect. And they'd have to reinvest Gray's payroll to fill other team needs - either at SS or SP.

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  15. #24
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    This is what the Indians do. I’m sure it’s probably not that simple but it sure seems like every year they trade away one or two of their best players, the fans cry around about how their team doesn’t try, then the team proceeds to make the playoffs.
    Except for the fact that the Reds haven't been able to consistently move starting pitchers into the majors from the minors. Castillo spent a few months in the Reds farm system and Tyler Mahle came through the system. That's pretty much the list for the last 10 years - the Indians have been much more successful in grooming MLB starting pitchers.

  16. #25
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking View Post
    Except for the fact that the Reds haven't been able to consistently move starting pitchers into the majors from the minors. Castillo spent a few months in the Reds farm system and Tyler Mahle came through the system. That's pretty much the list for the last 10 years - the Indians have been much more successful in grooming MLB starting pitchers.
    What the reds were doing with starting pitching even 3 years ago doesn’t matter moving forward (in terms of future development of SP). They have completely overhauled their pitching development department with Boddy and Johnson. I am not saying this will 100% result in a bunch of homemade great arms, but they are absolutely not doing what they were doing with SP the last decade or so.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  17. #26
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    Quote Originally Posted by CaiGuy View Post
    It sucks, but I wonder if the Reds foresee a decline for Gray a la Latos, and want to try to cash in before that happens.

    I wonder the same about letting Bradley go.

    Maybe I am giving them to much credit, but when we ask them to be more like the Rays, this is what we are asking for.
    I have very specifically stated that I would hate it if they tried to emulate the Rays. The Rays win in spite of their pathetic cheapness, not because of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    When it comes to crow, I'd like nothing more than to eat Dick's all season long and into the postseason.

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  19. #27
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    I have very specifically stated that I would hate it if they tried to emulate the Rays. The Rays win in spite of their pathetic cheapness, not because of it.
    The Rays were 2 wins away from winning the World Series last year.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  20. #28
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    The Rays were 2 wins away from winning the World Series last year.
    That was also the first time they had advanced in the playoffs in 12 years. Like I said, they win in spite of being super cheap not because of it. If they spent even as much as the Reds do, they’d probably be making the LCS and World Series as often as the Dodgers do. They win because they have an excellent development system, not because they refuse to spend any money at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    When it comes to crow, I'd like nothing more than to eat Dick's all season long and into the postseason.

  21. #29
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    That was also the first time they had advanced in the playoffs in 12 years. Like I said, they win in spite of being super cheap not because of it. If they spent even as much as the Reds do, they’d probably be making the LCS and World Series as often as the Dodgers do. They win because they have an excellent development system, not because they refuse to spend any money at all.
    I’ll take a World Series appearance every 10-15 years as a reds fan with playoff appearances often. I’m fully aware they don’t spend money. They do it the right way as a small market team, right or wrong morally. I’m not saying reduce the payroll to $75 million, but the Rays would absolutely trade Sonny Gray this year and not just because they are cheap, because it’s smart.
    Last edited by RedTeamGo!; 12-05-2020 at 11:48 AM.
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  23. #30
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    Re: Sherman: Reds are “working hard” to trade right-hander Sonny Gray

    I'm not thrilled about trading Gray, but I think this team, while improved from the tanking years, is a dead end bunch that will top out within a few games of .500 either way. Too many one dimensional, poor fielding, slow, all or nothing guys on big contracts. If Gray could bring back a couple of top notch all around guys who the team could add to a Suarez, Senzel, Winker, Castillo, Mahle, Stephenson core, I don't think trading somebody like Gray has to signal another multi-year rebuild.

    I see this team's primary needs as:

    1. A long term SS. Maybe that's Garcia, but it isn't yet, so I wouldn't let him stand in the way of getting somebody else who projects as a top notch guy. Middle infielders who can play and hit are always needed.

    2. A Long Term RF. The OF has decent names, but there really isn't a RF type in the bunch. Maybe Senzel if they move him, but they have a lot of weak arms, a suspect in Aquino and guys who simply can't play defense very well at any spot. Shogo is touted as a guy who can play all three spots, but watching him last year, his arm is pretty weak IMO. I don't see him as a RF solution. The current RF is part of why this team looks to be at a dead end IMO.

    3. Another starting pitcher or two. This is a permanent need no matter who they have. It would be in the top three on the list even if Bauer and Gray were both coming back.

    4. An All Around Second Baseman. See the SS comments and like Castallanos, Moose at 2B is part of what limits the team. He's a decent player, but he's overpaid and not really a second baseman and if MLB does anything to limit shifting, the right side of Votto, Moose and Castellanos is going to be exposed as a major problem. Having an extra guy in short RF who can throw out guys on ground balls through the hole between 1B and 2B and can catch flies that look to fall in front of the RF against LH hitters is the only reason these guys survive now.

    5. Arms for the bullpen, a lefty if we can get one, but more arms of all types. Always a need.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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