RedsZone's 2021 BBWAA HOF Ballot Vote

[Coopdaddy67]

After having a few down years on the mound, CTrent has withdrawn his vote for Curt Schilling after voting for him every time previously.

[adkindo]

My personal opinion is the HOF is illegitimate without Pete Rose, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens. I just do not care about the off the field stuff or even the PED use. If you have ever been deep into the PED world, you understand that PED's are currently being used throughout professional sports, and always will be used in professional sports. Although I know I am in the minority....probably the very small minority, but I just do not really care. I think the HOF should be a judgment of performance between the lines, and everything else should be between the individual and their higher power to sort out.

[savafan]

My personal opinion is the HOF is illegitimate without Pete Rose, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens. I just do not care about the off the field stuff or even the PED use. If you have ever been deep into the PED world, you understand that PED's are currently being used throughout professional sports, and always will be used in professional sports. Although I know I am in the minority....probably the very small minority, but I just do not really care. I think the HOF should be a judgment of performance between the lines, and everything else should be between the individual and their higher power to sort out.

PEDs were always around in high school sports when I was there in the early to mid 1990s.

[Phoenix2]

Schilling should be in the HOF.

(from mlb.com in 2015):

"Schilling no doubt has suffered from his relatively low total of wins (216) and lack of a Cy Young Award, perhaps getting overshadowed by his brilliant contemporaries -- and in some cases teammates -- such as Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux and Pedro Martinez. But when it comes to the most relevant numbers, there is a strong case for the six-time All-Star and three-time Cy Young runner-up as a clear Hall of Famer. Here is a look:

• Schilling's career value stacks up quite favorably. His 80.7 pitching wins above replacement (WAR) ranks 26th all time, according to Baseball-Reference.com, including 14th in the expansion era (since 1961). He comes in just behind Bob Gibson and ahead of numerous Hall of Famers, including Don Sutton, Jim Palmer, Bob Feller, Juan Marichal and Don Drysdale.

• Baseball-Reference's wins above average (WAA) compares a player's performance to the league average instead of to a theoretical replacement player, as in WAR. By that standard, Schilling's 54.1 ranks 10th among pitchers since 1901, ahead of such names as Gibson, Steve Carlton and Warren Spahn.

• In 1968, baseball witnessed the Year of the Pitcher and responded by lowering the mound. Over the 47 seasons since then, here is where Schilling's career numbers fall in several important categories (a minimum of 2,500 innings was used for rate stats):

Strikeout-to-walk ratio: 1st (4.38)
Strikeouts per 9 innings: 4th (8.6)
WHIP: 4th (1.137)
Walks per 9 innings: 6th (1.96)
WAA: 6th (54.1)
ERA+: 7th (127)
Strikeouts: 9th (3,116)
WAR: 10th (80.7)"

And of course, his performance in the post-season is legendary. But Schilling is not in the HOF and may never be. Why? Because some sportswriters don't like his politics and think if he has different political opinions from them he should not be allowed in the baseball hall of fame? The HOF is in a bad place right now. Pete Rose is excluded and Harold Baines is included. And it will look more ridiculous in the future when you look at various pitcher rankings/stats and always see "non-Hall of Famer" Curt Schilling high on these lists. It will always beg the question as to why he is not in the Hall by future fans. You could even contend that he stands out all the more by not being included...the sweet irony.

[getfoul]

C Trent Rosecrans on MLB Now today was aggravating.

Just hold your nose, check the mark next to Schilling, put it in an envelope and send it to Cooperstown, and then move on with your life.

You don’t have to celebrate when he gets 75%. You don’t have to watch his speech. But he is a Hall of Fame quality pitcher, so vote for him next year so you’re not the *******. Let him be the ******* while you be the bigger person by actually voting for him.

[Kinsm]

This poll will lock in 14 days time...

We've had 107 RZone members open the thread, but only 68 have voted thus far (last year we had 94 overall votes and the year prior we had 92 overall votes).

...please add your voice - VOTE!

[RedsBaron]

I'm having some log in issues. I'm going to see if this post is accepted before I again to make a longer post.

[RedsBaron]

I have not yet voted, as I am still pondering a few candidates. Thus far RedsZone voters have not put anyone at the 75% threshold necessary for election on the "real" HOF ballot.
I thought it might help my "pondering" to compare the career WAR of the 15 players whom I believe are semi-serious candidates for induction, along with their percentage of votes thus far on the RedsZone poll.
Barry Bonds, 162.8 WAR, 64.71%
Roger Clemens, 139.2 WAR, 67.65%
Curt Schilling, 79.5 WAR, 64.71%
Scott Rolen, 70.1 WAR, 69.12%
Manny Ramirez, 69.3 WAR, 48.53%
Andruw Jones, 62.7 WAR, 29.41%
Todd Helton, 61.8 WAR, 47.06%
Gary Sheffield, 60.5 WAR, 48.53%
Bobby Abreu, 60.2 WAR, 11.76%
Andy Pettitte, 60.2 WAR, 25.00%
Sammy Sosa, 58.6 WAR, 22.06%
Jeff Kent, 55.4 WAR, 30.88%
Omar Vizquel, 45.6 WAR, 22.06%
Billy Wagner, 27.7 WAR, 36.76%

[RedsBaron]

Having reviewed my prior post, a few things jumped out at me, including:
No surprise that Billy Wagner has easily the lowest career WAR, since he was a relief pitcher. By way of comparison, Mariano Rivera's career WAR was 56.3.
It would help Dave Concepcion's HOF case if Vizquel as inducted, as Davey's career WAR of 40.1 isn't that much lower than Vizquel's 45.6.
I don't believe career WAR takes into account post season success, which arguably is significant for Pettitte, who went 19-11 in the post season, albeit with aa 3.81 ERA, and which clearly is significant for Schilling.
I view Bonds and Clemens as joined at the hip for HOF voting. Each player clearly has career numbers that should have put him in the HOF on the first ballot, and each man has been denied induction because of PEDs allegations. I do not understand how anyone could vote for one without voting for the other.

[OGB]

C Trent Rosecrans on MLB Now today was aggravating.

Just hold your nose, check the mark next to Schilling, put it in an envelope and send it to Cooperstown, and then move on with your life.

You don’t have to celebrate when he gets 75%. You don’t have to watch his speech. But he is a Hall of Fame quality pitcher, so vote for him next year so you’re not the *******. Let him be the ******* while you be the bigger person by actually voting for him.

Schilling is an awful, bigoted crackpot and there are already too many of those in the HoF.
Pass.

[Kinsm]

This poll will lock in 7 days time...


...please add your voice - VOTE!

[Kinsm]

LAST CALL!

This poll will lock in 36 hours...


...please add your voice - VOTE!

[Kinsm]

Selection show will be tonight at 6 pm EST (Coverage begins at 3 pm);

I'll try to be Nostradamus again this year (I've been fairly close in the past), this is what I think the final balloting will look like ---

Just like our RedsZone ballot, no one gets in this year on the official ballot.

The average # of votes per voter goes down this year (less writers will be voting for a full 10 spots).

Most of the votes that went to Jeter and Walker a year ago will be split up between Jones, Helton, Rolen, and Wagner this go around.

Schilling, about 70% (little movement - might get in next year - his final eligible year)
Clemens, about 62% (little movement - next year is his final eligible year - unlikely to get in)
Bonds, about 62% (little movement - next year is his final eligible year - unlikely to get in)
Vizquel, about 54% (little movement, could actually see him drop)
Rolen, about 53% (sees a big jump in his 4th attempt - a race with Helton to see who gets in first)
Helton, about 48% (sees a big jump in only his 3rd attempt)
Wagner, about 47% (a solid jump, has 4 more attempts after this year - a good chance he will eventually)
Sheffield, about 41% (a good boost in his 7th attempt but probably not as big as he'd have liked to have seen)
Jones, about 33% (a solid jump in his 4th attempt - we'll see if he stalls out in a few years)
ManRam, about 31% (not much movement)
Kent, about 29% (little movement - doesn't look like he'll get in with only two attempts remaining)
Sosa, about 17% (little movement - he's only got one attempt remaining after today)
Pettitte, about 15% (a modest boost)
Abreu, about 10% (a modest boost)
Hudson, about 5% (wouldn't be shocked if he fails to meet the threshold to stay)
Buehrle, about 5% (wouldn't be shocked if he fails to meet the threshold to stay)
Hunter, about 5% (wouldn't be shocked if he fails to meet the threshold to stay)
A.Ram, about 3% (falls off ballot)
Haren, about 0%
Zito, about 0%
Victorino, about 0%
Burnett, about 0%
Swisher, about 0%
Hawkins, about 0%
Cuddyer, about 0%

[RedsBaron]

As a result of the pandemic causing the cancellation of last year's induction ceremonies, assuming there is a ceremony in 2021, Derek Jeter, Larry Walker and Ted Simmons [and presumably someone for the late Marvin Miller] will be in attendance. But for that I would expect the HOF to really be scrambling in the probable event no one is elected in tonight's vote results.

[Roy Tucker]

The USA Today group of writers posts what writers voted for what players:

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6696919002