Last edited by Kc61; 12-31-2020 at 10:24 PM.
I think a lot of teams will have a problem with changing. Most of baseball has gone to the big corner guy who can hit playing second base. Those teams will have the same problem the Reds will if that big slow guy is left there to cover second base in the traditional way without the extra infielder helping him out against left handed hitters. The REds problem is worse because that extra fielder not only helps the second baseman but also the Right Fielder on short fly balls and the Reds don't have a player in either position who can cover the position properly. Without that extra fielder, a lot of teams are going to be exposed, but the Reds moreso than most.
I think the shift was taken into consideration as a way to hide the defensive issues when the Reds signed those guys and if it's eliminated, I don't think the Reds can go into the season with those guys in those two positions.
Last edited by mth123; 12-31-2020 at 09:29 PM.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
And I don't think anyone is disputing this point. It existed at some degree or level, but other then Wiliams, it was still not a common practice around the league. There were plenty of elite pull hitters "back then" who drew their success/power in the same manner as Williams. Was it consistently used against them too? It was a manager who devised the strategy, yet it didn't seem to catch on. So yes, it existed, but not to the degree (frequency) we're seeing in today's game.
So IMO, it's an issue of infrequency, not a commonly accepted practice, thus providing little annoyance VS increased frequency, more common practice, and becoming a pain in the *** for players and fans. lol
I don't know if this has been posted, but maybe those (including me) who are making a fuss over this extreme shift ("we just don't like it!") are possibly over-reacting? Because at least according to the data collected so far, hitters are overcoming the shift on their own ...
LA continues to increase, GB rates dropping, players are learning to put the ball in the air, hit it over the INF, especially when the shift is on. And that kind of brings me back to what Williams said concerning the shift .... He wasn't going to yield his power, try to hit to the opposite field, nor alter the swing he took years to hone.
Hit it over them.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-on-their-own/
Last edited by GAC; 01-01-2021 at 07:24 AM.
"In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)
I covered it. Hitting OVER it has put the premium on power over all other skill sets and arguably accelerated the drift toward three true outcomes heavy games. That is the crux of my complaint - it has fundamentally altered the way the game is played and , in my view, not for the better.
Well, that's what those words mean. He was here. If they don't keep him, he will have been lost/subtracted. I headed out the door today with two shoes on my feet. If I don't return with them, I have lost them. If I do return with them, I haven't added them. ---M2
HammerTime (01-04-2021),malcontent (01-02-2021),OGB (03-16-2021),RedlegJake (01-29-2021),REDREAD (01-01-2021)
As someone who is very much in touch with youth baseball, ages 13-18, I can tell you it's all about launch angle and putting the ball in the air for kids. And it has to do with power to the outfield. They have no thoughts whatsoever about shifts or shifting. Weightlifting and launch angle. If you want the game to look like it used to, you'd be better off banning weightlifting than the shifts.
Let’s keep in mind that there are two separate questions.
Is the launch angle approach overcoming the shift in terms of run scoring? Probably yes.
Is the game, with this change, as exciting and action-packed for fans to enjoy? Many (myself included) say no.
This is more about the aesthetics of the game, how enjoyable it is to watch, rather than whether teams are still scoring runs.
And just to be clear - the lack of action is not entirely caused by the shift. It’s also caused by advanced pitching techniques increasing strikeouts.
Last edited by Kc61; 01-01-2021 at 09:53 AM.
So, since 2000 the K% per PA in MLB has increased from 16.5 to 23.4%. The biggest leap in the last ten years, from 18.5% to 23.4%. Think about that - today, almost 1/4 of all PAs end in a strikeout.
Simultaneously, since 2000, batting average has declined from .270 to .245. From 2015 to today, the extreme shift era, it’s declined from .254 to .245. Again - consider that league-wide BA is now below .250.
BA is a limited stat - but it does tell us how often batters are hitting successfully, which is a big part of the game’s appeal to the viewing audience. And while BB% is up (base hit infrequent, wait the pitcher out), I’m not sure that compensates for the lack of action.
Last edited by Kc61; 01-01-2021 at 10:51 AM.
HammerTime (01-04-2021),OGB (03-16-2021),REDREAD (01-01-2021)
Any update on this besides DH and expanded playoffs?
* Attended the 1990 and 2010 Reds Division clinchers *
Go 76ers, Go Steelers and Go Bucks
MLB testing new rules in minors: Big bases, shift bans, robot umps and more
https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb-testing...215444388.htmlIn Double-A, a new rule will require that four infielders be positioned on the infield dirt (or on the infield grass) at all times, effectively eliminating the increasingly common extreme shifts that see three infielders on one side of second base, with one of those usually playing in the shallow outfield, playing the percentages that the hitter will line out or ground out to that spot in the outfield and taking away would-be base hits. The league also suggested the possibility that the second half of the season will require two infielders to be on either side of second base, which would effectively ban shifts altogether.
JFLegal (03-11-2021)
HammerTime (03-11-2021),JFLegal (03-11-2021),OGB (03-16-2021),Old school 1983 (03-11-2021),REDREAD (03-12-2021),Ron Madden (03-11-2021)
Norm Chortleton (03-16-2021),Phoenix2 (03-18-2021)
Huh? Huh-uh. Oh yeah, uh-huh.
Norm Chortleton (03-16-2021)
I think we know where Votto stands on this topic.
* Attended the 1990 and 2010 Reds Division clinchers *
Go 76ers, Go Steelers and Go Bucks
The change I expect to see is in 10-20 years when left-handed hitters are basically nonexistent.
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