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Thread: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

  1. #601
    Thanks a lot, Bowie Kuhn Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    LeBron could go to Jordan's era and absolutely dominate as is.

    LeBron could go to Wilt's era and absolutely dominate as is.
    Agreed. And FWIW, LeBron's the best player that I've witnessed. I'll agree with you there.

    Now that I've gotten that out of the way.....

    Unless they changed, neither Jordan nor Wilt could dominate today. Jordan would have to add both an accurate three-point shot and a willingness to take a whole bunch of them instead of that patented fade-away 17-footer. He'd have more room, certainly, to operate. Wilt, otoh, would have to show me he could rebound and score better than, say, Shaq. (And that's a high, high bar.)
    With their well-rounded games - Wilt led the league in ASSISTS at least once, for instance - and work ethics, especially MJ, I have no doubt that either would have adjusted their games to fit in today. As well as LeBron would have fit in during MJ's and Wilt's heydays, that's another argument altogether. But I'm confident enough in stating the following opinion:

    Wilt could rebound and score better than Shaq in ANY era, and that's no knock on Shaq. Contrary to popular belief, Wilt didn't face a bunch of slow 6'8 centers night-in and night-out. Rather, he faced legitimate hall of famers - many of whom would have been just as effective during Shaq's era. Sure, Shaq faced many All-Time great centers during his career, but with fewer teams in Wilt's era, he rarely faced the Luc Longleys and Bill Wenningtons, for example, that Shaq faced on a frequent basis. In other words, Wilt never had the luxury of a relatively easy time as Shaq had against several mediocre at best centers on a frequent basis.
    Whatever you do, do your best to not allow the struggles of life to interfere with the pleasures of living.

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  4. #602
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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    The issue I have is that I feel positive LeBron would dominate all three eras. (All eras, honestly.) But only that Jordan and Wilt might, if they work toward it.

    That, IMO, makes LeBron the GOAT.

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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    Wilt is generally considered better than Bill Russell, but he didn’t dominate their matchup. In fact, you could argue that Russell matched Wilt in key games, such as the playoffs, repeatedly.
    Russell was the star player of the greatest dynasty in NBA history - 10 titles in 11 years. Wilt, Hal Greer, Chet walker and Billy Cunningham’s 76ers won the other year in that time: 66-67.
    The Russell vs Chamberlain argument always circles back to one legitimate point. One in which the pro-Russell crowd can never dispute:

    Russell 90% of the time played with a far superior supporting cast. That's not even up for debate.

    That's a major reason as to why the Celtics' dynasty of Russell's era is considered the greatest dynasty in NBA history.
    Whatever you do, do your best to not allow the struggles of life to interfere with the pleasures of living.

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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    The issue I have is that I feel positive LeBron would dominate all three eras. (All eras, honestly.) But only that Jordan and Wilt might, if they work toward it.

    That, IMO, makes LeBron the GOAT.
    I don't disagree with that point, FWIW. at least you've spoken about Wilt in the same light as LeBron and MJ.

    Before LeBron ever posted one second of NBA court time, the pro Jordan crowd never granted the Wilt agrument the time of day. And they still refuse to do so.
    Whatever you do, do your best to not allow the struggles of life to interfere with the pleasures of living.

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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    If we are talking about players that would have been able to dominate in any era, you can easily throw Kareem Abdul-Jabbar into that mix. He possessed the single most unstoppable shot in NBA history - THE SKYHOOK. I wonder why there weren't more imitators of that shot?

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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    For me Kareem and Bill Russell are better than Wilt and Shaq. Bill won the most and Kareem had the most unstoppable move/shot ever.

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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    Never saw Wilt play, but I am unsure how anyone could have watched Michael Jordan play basketball, and think he is not the GOAT. Jordan had a presence when he walked onto the court that Lebron has never had. Kobe had it to a lesser degree. That presence elicited just a raw mixture of respect, fear, happiness, anxiety, and every other emotion from those in the building and even watching on TV. Guys were defeated before the ball was even tossed up for the opening tip.
    You do not articulate this “presence” so I have no idea what you mean. Do you mean charisma?
    LBJ has way more skill and intelligence to his game than MJ ever had. MJ on the other hand could defend better than LBJ can.
    I Know that MJ was ultra competitive (in his prime, he wasn’t always that way) in a way that stood out. Larry bird was about the only Bballer that came close. Kobe is not in their league. He was competitive in 1 v1 like Allen Iverson but that is a different kind of competitiveness. It’s why Larry and MJ are/were owners/GMs and guys like Kobe, Shaquille, Allen Iversen are not.
    Last edited by Betterread; 01-27-2021 at 10:04 PM.

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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Unless they changed, neither Jordan nor Wilt could dominate today. Jordan would have to add both an accurate three-point shot and a willingness to take a whole bunch of them instead of that patented fade-away 17-footer.
    During Jordan's career, his 3-point rate was .327, during an era where high-volume treys were taken primarily by specialists. His career rate stood at 96.2% of his peers (again, mainly three-point specialists) and posted his highest rates during seasons in which he took his highest volume of three point shots.

    LeBron James career has spanned an era where the game has changed to mandate that nearly everyone take three point shots. James has posted a three-point rate of 96.7% of his peers during his career.

    There's simply no reason to believe that Michael Jordan couldn't make threes at a rate equal to that of LeBron James. Likewise, there's no reason to believe that Jordan would refuse to shoot three-pointers, in addition to breaking ankles and dunking on the world, if that was what the game required.

    It would be fun to see a prime age Karl Malone go up against a prime-age LeBron James though.
    Last edited by SteelSD; 01-27-2021 at 10:32 PM.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Utah Jazz, best record in the league.

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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    Never saw Wilt either, as he played in his last game when I was not quite six years old.

    Nevertheless, there's more than enough ample evidence out there to support the claim that he should, at the very least, be included in ANY NBA GOAT conversation.

    https://wiltfan.tripod.com/wiltrules.html

    That said, I'm much more inclined to support the Jordan as GOAT argument than the Jordan's Bulls as GOAT arguments. Comparing teams against teams from other eras seems fruitless. But, within the pre-pace-and-space (position-less NBA)/three-point-shot rule in effect era, nobody's going to convince me otherwise in regards to the following:

    The following '80's teams were better than ANY '90's team:

    1) '83 76ers

    2)'87 Lakers

    3) '86 Celtics

    4) '89 Pistons - That '91 Pistons team was on its last legs when the Bulls dethroned them.

    The Showtime Lakers dynasty > Bulls dynasty

    While it was still a relatively stacked league from '91 -'93, the post- Jordan retirement Bulls ('95 -'98) were largely the beneficiaries of a watered-down/expansion-filled league, which occurred during an era in which the worldwide basketball infrastructure and overall talent dwarf the current environment.
    Nique was Giannis times ten.

    Nique had to try to get through that every year. He almost single-handedly did one year.
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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Enter Steph Curry.

    Dribbles, creates an open shot for Tobias Harris. 3.0 seconds left. Bucket!!!

    Lakers Lose! Lakers Lose!
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    DEN is getting healthy and finding a rhythm.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    ORL really needs Isaac.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    The issue I have is that I feel positive LeBron would dominate all three eras. (All eras, honestly.) But only that Jordan and Wilt might, if they work toward it.

    That, IMO, makes LeBron the GOAT.
    Your opinion and everyone else's is as valid as mine, so I am not trying to suggest I know better. Still, not sure how anyone would doubt Jordan would not dominate any league from Mikan to Antetokounmpo. I get that he did not shoot the # or % of 3's as an average All Star today, but only because the game is different. Jordan's shot and mechanics were pure, and would have easily extended to the 3 point line in the modern game. When I say Jordan would have dominated, I mean that in the Tom Brady way....as in he would win. Lebron has never demonstrated the individual fire and presence on a consistent basis that Jordan brought to the court nightly. Jordan wanted to break your spirit....he wanted it to hurt....he was an assassin on the court.

    Just curious, are you younger? Under 35 years old? It does not make you more or less correct, but there is often a divide among the ages that saw Jordan play in his prime and those that are younger. Similar to those that saw Kareem in his prime, and then guys like me that saw him from his mid-30's to retirement. Btw, Kareem is #2 on my list behind Jordan.....then I have several guys that I struggle with @ #3 including Magic, Lebron, Kobe and Bird, but probably in that order as of today. In my mind, it is about if you have 1 game or 1 series, which guy do I want on my team the most as the first criteria, level they performed in their prime next and career production as the third criteria. Based on only the first criteria, I am taking all of those guys I listed over Lebron.
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
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    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Enter Steph Curry.

    Dribbles, creates an open shot for Tobias Harris. 3.0 seconds left. Bucket!!!

    Lakers Lose! Lakers Lose!
    Seth.....and the Lakers got next to nothing from their role players all night....KCP, Kuzma, Morris and Harrell combined for 7 points. The Lakers had no business even coming close to winning that game with those guys no showing.
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
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