Turn Off Ads?
Page 43 of 68 FirstFirst ... 3339404142434445464753 ... LastLast
Results 631 to 645 of 1013

Thread: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

  1. #631
    Thanks a lot, Bowie Kuhn Revering4Blue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    2,108

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Opinion: Are the Sixers the best team in the Eastern Conference?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ce/4289599001/
    Whatever you do, do your best to not allow the struggles of life to interfere with the pleasures of living.


  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #632
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    6,914

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Can we just pretend I was right even though I was completely wrong?
    Fair.

  4. #633
    Member Kingspoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    9,977

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    Opinion: Are the Sixers the best team in the Eastern Conference?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ce/4289599001/
    I hear it erroneously bantered time and time again where fans think a player's past performance will dictate his future performance like it's a Nintendo game and life and circumstances never change, that the players are robots and there are no human brains involved in the results.

    Believing that the 76ers of today or next month or in late May when the playoffs begin have anything to do with the 76ers of last season or seasons before is nothing but ignorance on the part of that person.

    There's a new Head Coach, and not just any Head Coach, but Doc Rivers, who puts his stamp on anyplace he's been. There are major rotation changes, such as the introduction of Seth Curry, the team's leader in Net Rating, is their best Defender of smaller players, has the highest basketball IQ on the team, better than Doc Rivers', has no ego that would get in the way of doing the right play, and is exceptional in crunch time, the last five minutes of a game, where great teams separate themselves from the rest of the pack. This is a presence that the Sixers teams of the recent past has needed help with.

    There's so much more that there's no reason to believe that the Sixers can't be the best team in the East by the time the playoffs begin, and with Embiid's dominance combined with Shake, Harris, Seth, and Simmons, and the parts they can play, and what Doc Rivers can get out of the team going forward, that there's a Championship run in this squad.

    One thing to note about Seth is that Stotts used him to close out games in a 3-guard lineup that was highly successful, and Seth repeatedly hit shots, made steals, made right pass without showing an ounce of pressure in these situations. That's going to be critical when Simmons can't hit a free throw and needs to be removed late in a game, that Seth can come in and run the Offense, always making the right play while keeping in mind the personalities and egos of those around him. Doc can trust him. That's huge.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  5. #634
    Member Kingspoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    9,977

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Like any other sport, we can equalize for era while performing any analysis. The gap is that you view Jordan's three point rates as a lack of skill. But his rates were pretty clearly a result of circumstance and environment. Jordan COULD shoot threes at a high rate, he just didn't have to. It wasn't expected or necessary. But go check his stats. Take a look at his seasonal rates when he took @3.0 or more threes per game. See what you find.

    You also seem to think that LeBron James' size would play the same way in Jordan's era as it does today. You need to consider that as players in Jordan's era played more consistently closer to the basket. LeBron wouldn't have nearly as much space to operate and would consistently be faced with players that were tougher and, frankly, meaner than those around today.
    Horrible shooters become good 3-point shooters time and time and time again. It's not a difficult transition. It takes years, but it almost always happens. 10,000 attempts a year will gain the needed results. There were other parts of one's game that was worked on back then, and that's the only reason why 3-pt shooting percentages were lower. A lack of skill was never then nor has ever been an issue. BZ's lack of skill argument is total bunk.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  6. #635
    Member Kingspoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    9,977

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    Seth.....and the Lakers got next to nothing from their role players all night....KCP, Kuzma, Morris and Harrell combined for 7 points. The Lakers had no business even coming close to winning that game with those guys no showing.
    In the Lakers' Defense, they seem to lack motivation most nights. They know they can turn it on when they have to. These games seem meaningless to them right now.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  7. #636
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    6,914

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Horrible shooters become good 3-point shooters time and time and time again. It's not a difficult transition. It takes years, but it almost always happens. 10,000 attempts a year will gain the needed results. There were other parts of one's game that was worked on back then, and that's the only reason why 3-pt shooting percentages were lower. A lack of skill was never then nor has ever been an issue. BZ's lack of skill argument is total bunk.
    This is a particularly brutal takedown from the poster most known for his erudite and objective grasp of NBA statistics.

    I bow to your remarkably astute evaluations on all things NBA. Regale us again with tales of the unbeaten Blazers squad of yore who tore through the playoffs with nary a loss!

  8. #637
    Member Kingspoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    9,977

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Crazy.

    Sekou Smith, 48, American sportswriter and journalist (The Indianapolis Star, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, NBA TV), COVID-19.[49]
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  9. #638
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In Your Head
    Posts
    9,896

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Jordan was an average shooter from long distance in his era. Were he to change eras, he wouldn't magically get better at it. 23 feet is still 23 feet. He would be expected to take more three-point shots-- and to be a better marksman when he did take them. In taking more three-point shots (as players of this era do), his shooting percentages would almost definitely go down. He would have to work on that shot's accuracy to ensure his GOAT label.
    Ok, let's dissect that. It involves multiple assumptions and misunderstandings on your part, not the least of which involves the concept that if things were different, they'd be the same. It's another of your overly-reductive positions with so little consideration of dynamics to even be as good as two-dimensional.

    Let's ignore the fact that you are, once more, putting three-point shot rates on a pedestal; using them as a defining factor. It's like your basketball version of kryptonite. And you're doing so for a player (James) who has been, for his career, a slightly below-average three point shooter.

    At the core of your position is the concept LeBron James would be taking around five three point shots per game in Jordan's era to develop that skill. And it IS a skill James had to develop over time. He wasn't good at it when he entered the NBA. Second, you're assuming that Michael Jordan wouldn't already have that skill developed if leaving college when LeBron entered the NBA, knowing that shooting treys was nearly five times more prevalent than when he actually did leave North Carolina.

    And we're not talking about Michael Jordan being a "bad" three-point shooter. He produced a 3-point rate versus his peers that was nearly identical to what James has done versus his. If nothing else, the two players were equal when gauged against any reasonable expectation. You seem to think that favors James. It doesn't. At best for you, it washes.

    It's really too bad that you're too young to have watched Michael Jordan play basketball. LeBron James is imposing. He's skilled. He's a Mack truck. But Michael Jordan had an extra element that James never has and never will. Jordan was frightening for opponents who faced him.

    LeBron would have to work at nothing beyond, apparently, some vague notion of "toughness." (Somewhere in Atlanta, I'm sure Charles Barkley is nodding in agreement with your argument. Which is all I need to say to repudiate your argument.)
    I'm a little concerned that you would attempt to misrepresent my comment as LeBron needing to get tougher. Not the case. All I said was that LeBron would have less space to operate and would be facing tougher players. Both are true. I'm sorry that you don't like it, but as I mentioned earlier in this post, if things were different they wouldn't be the same.

    See, I don't need to rely on shenanigans to refute your argument. All I need to refute your argument is your argument. Honestly, I'd hoped you come a little stronger, but "three-point rate" is sort of your one trick, ain't it?
    Last edited by SteelSD; 01-28-2021 at 07:13 PM.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  10. Likes:

    Kingspoint (01-29-2021)

  11. #639
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In Your Head
    Posts
    9,896

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Two thoughts on that:

    1) Clearly LeBron didn't like having a player/team go right at him. More teams need to be doing that.

    2) Next time they meet, is Dwight going to be willing to play enforcer?
    1) Yeah, it was pretty clear that James was frustrated at that point in the game. Add to that the fact that Embiid was about to put him on a poster...well, it wasn't lost on me that James didn't even try to defend on that play.

    2) Nah. Besides the fact that Howard played with James last year, the way officials call the game re: Dwight Howard, he'd have been given 8 fouls for so much as touching James. Heck, Howard had a foul called on him the game before that for having his shorts ripped half off. Not kidding.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  12. Likes:

    M2 (01-28-2021)

  13. #640
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    6,914

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    The reason I talk about Jordan's three-point shooting is because that's the difference between the GOAT and everyone else. It's not that I'm enamored solely with long-distance shooting (although that skill has become vital in today's game). It's because both players do everything else really, really well. It's splitting hairs.

    It doesn't matter what Jordan's shooting was like versus his peers-- that's remarkably irrelevant and (I suspect) a purposeful distraction. Of course he was good then-- we have all of those MVPs and posters and shoes and commercials and a documentary to prove it. That doesn't matter if we're talking about how his game translates to today. (And that was my exact argument.) If Jordan was transported to today, he'd be considered a below average shooter now. That was my entire point, my man. Were Jordan in today's NBA, he'd have to work on his shooting before being considered the best in the league. It would be a weakness, as measured by his shooting percentages. (The goal is still 10 feet high, after all. And the three-point line distance actually benefitted Jordan over LeBron. People still guard you at the line. In fact, they guard you a lot closer.)

    It is now customary to belittle the other poster's argument in the last few sentences, I guess. So think of various insults about South Dakota and your second wife you stole from the conservative West Virginia guy when he dared disagree with you or something.

  14. #641
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In Your Head
    Posts
    9,896

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    The reason I talk about Jordan's three-point shooting is because that's the difference between the GOAT and everyone else. It's not that I'm enamored solely with long-distance shooting (although that skill has become vital in today's game). It's because both players do everything else really, really well. It's splitting hairs.
    That's an argument only supported by its own premise. "Three point shooting is important because it's determines who the 'GOAT' is" is the definition of circular logic.

    And you're infatuated with three-point shooting. It's your go to, but poisons your analysis.

    It doesn't matter what Jordan's shooting was like versus his peers-- that's remarkably irrelevant and (I suspect) a purposeful distraction. Of course he was good then-- we have all of those MVPs and posters and shoes and commercials and a documentary to prove it. That doesn't matter if we're talking about how his game translates to today. (And that was my exact argument.) If Jordan was transported to today, he'd be considered a below average shooter now. That was my entire point, my man. Were Jordan in today's NBA, he'd have to work on his shooting before being considered the best in the league. It would be a weakness, as measured by his shooting percentages. (The goal is still 10 feet high, after all. And the three-point line distance actually benefitted Jordan over LeBron. People still guard you at the line. In fact, they guard you a lot closer.)
    You don't see it, but you continue to only move Jordan forward in time, not LeBron back. And I'm honestly flabbergasted that you don't accept that environment matters. Understanding differences in play style is crucial to any cross-era analysis.

    Hell, Larry Bird averaged only 1.9 three-point attempts for his career- never posting a season that topped Jordan's 3.6 per game season high water mark. The year Jordan came into the league, Darryl Griffith led the NBA in treys attempted per game at 3.3. Go take a look at the seasonal top 10 list for three point attempts and see how long you have to go after Jordan's first season to find even a handful of guys who, in a single season, each topped LeBron's career rate of 4.3 attempts per game.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...3a_top_10.html

    And you think LeBron would have been taking 4.3 per game back then at an equal make rate? Heck, Reggie Miller took only 4.7 per game for his career. It just wasn't done, not even from specialists.

    The true irony is that Michael Jordan actually posted the 9th highest volume of treys among all NBA players during the 89-90 season. He took 3.0 three-point shots per game at a .376 rate. The only other times he shot as many as 3.0 per game, he posted make rates of .427 and .374, with his next best season at 2.9 attempts and a .359 shooting percentage from deep. You can see trend, right? I think. Maybe?

    It is now customary to belittle the other poster's argument in the last few sentences, I guess. So think of various insults about South Dakota and your second wife you stole from the conservative West Virginia guy when he dared disagree with you or something.
    I have to admit, you're a better flopper than either Marcus Smart or Daniel Theis. So, you got that going for ya'.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  15. #642
    Member Kingspoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    9,977

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    There aren't trophies for "I shot the most 3-pointers" or "I had the highest 3-point percentage", and it's not anything a competitive NBA player cares about, nor ever will.

    Jordan is the most competitive person to ever wear an NBA uniform. That's his legacy. As the ultra alpha-dog competitor, he had only one goal...collect NBA Championship Trophies. Doing whatever it takes to reach that goal encompassed many things, but shooting the most 3-pointers was far, far down the list. Being far, far down the list, it then becomes something that isn't a top-priority when it comes to spending time improving oneself. So many things were more important that would help him collect Championship Trophies. Had shooting and making 3-point shots been part of a winning formula when he played, he would have led the league in that stat as he would have devoted his self-improvement work towards becoming the very best of his peers at it.

    The Bulls never won Championships because they were the best shooting team. That wasn't their formula for winning. Half the teams in the NBA year after year shot better than they did. So, to compensate, the Bulls just put up more attempts so that their volume was better than their opponent's percentages. Volume came from fewer turnover, more rebounds, more free throws. It wasn't rocket science. Those things they excelled at were effort-driven, not talent-driven, though it still takes talent to do those things, but it's effort that gets the results. Nobody gave more effort than Jordan. Nobody was more efficient with their effort than Pippen. That combination was lethal when they added a Rodman or a Cartwright to pull down the boards and create the turnovers, along with Pippen and Jordan who applied incredible ball pressure.

    This would have them excel in any era. Effort and competitiveness wins over talent in any era. Shooting comes and goes, and goes badly in the playoffs and in 4th Quarters and in the last five minutes and in the last 30 seconds. LeBron's first five years in the league, he was something like 3 for 21 on game-winning shots. He choked more often than any NBA player in that category. He was the one always attempting them, but he was horrible at them. Guaranteed you'd win if LeBron was taking the last shot. I'm not knocking LeBron's game, but he was never an elite shooter, he was below average for a long time. Like any NBA player, they get better at it over the years, and the more volume and years and minutes they get, the better they get at it. Anyone can learn how to hit three's if they spend enough time working on it. Even Ben Simmons some day.

    Who's the greatest ever? I have to go Wilt, hands down. So many of those Championships Boston won were won Game 7 on their home floor. The difference between the two teams was a lot closer than the final results.

    It comes down with, "Who would you start your team with?" That's why different G.M.'s have different philosophies. Many philosophies lead to winning a Championship, and you have to build your philosophy based upon the era you're in. This new one where teams are jacking up 50 three's per game has changed the game to an unrecognizable look. Two Wings, 1 Rim-Protector who can also guard the "3", and two Combo-Guards with one that can play Defense. That's the new formula. The winning formula has been where one of those Wings or a Center runs the Offense half the time, so you pick a Leonard, James, Butler or Giannis right now. If Tatum can become a play-maker enough to run the Offense, then he's going to be a part of that. There's others, but even great Guards, if they're small enough, can be double-teamed and have the ball removed from them in crunch-time. That's harder to do with a Wing that runs the floor as he can pass over the double-team. Jokic and Doncic are impossible to stop. Jokic only had one player in Murray help him last year, but now he's got Porter. DEN just became lethal. Doncic is short help even with Porzingas.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wood dominated POR tonight, btw, while Oladipo, Wall and House were all very solid.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  16. #643
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    6,914

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    That's an argument only supported by its own premise. "Three point shooting is important because it's determines who the 'GOAT' is" is the definition of circular logic.

    And you're infatuated with three-point shooting. It's your go to, but poisons your analysis.
    I've explained my take on that repeatedly, but hey, what's one more?

    What's just incredibly weird here is that you somehow think Jordan would shoot better if he shot more of them. It's almost certainly untrue. The ones he shot in his era were largely wide open (or when the line was moved in by two feet, much easier to hit). He'd be given free reign in this era, no doubt, and I'm sure he'd shoot more from distance, but those shots aren't going to be great shots. Those off the dribble, hand-in-the-face, heat-check, shoulder-shrugging threes aren't typically good shots for anyone aside from Steph Curry and Dame in the 4th quarter. Given more volume and a longer three-point line, Jordan would almost certainly shoot a worse percentage. I left the percentages alone in Jordan's analysis because it hurt him in the comparison-- and I couldn't justify the narrative with numbers.

    LeBron, meanwhile, have almost assuredly benefit from the opposite happening. During Jordan's era, teams would get back on defense and immediately pack the paint. leBron would get hacked every time he drove the ball. As a corollary, he would almost assuredly take more wide open shots at the perimeter and less closely guarded low-percentage shots. That should see his percentage rise. Remember, too, LeBron is a bigger, stronger Magic-- the guys guarding him would have to play off due to foot speed, bull strength, and quickness with the ball. He'd be as he is now but more so-- a walking mismatch, able to bull his way to the hoop against smaller opponents and able to drive around slower ones. Put another way, maybe Rodman can guard him on the perimeter and underneath. Who else could? Ben Wallace?

    And that's my point, really. LeBron is already great enough as a rebounder, a passer, and a scorer to dominate in Jordan's level against lesser athletes and those unaccustomed to massive men being able to do what he's able to do. Jordan would have to adapt his game to fit this era. That's what makes LeBron the GOAT.

    Now, feel free to tackle that supposition, Steel: What would LeBron have to change about his game in order to be dominant in Jordan's era?

  17. #644
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    6,914

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    There aren't trophies for "I shot the most 3-pointers" or "I had the highest 3-point percentage", and it's not anything a competitive NBA player cares about, nor ever will.
    So who's coming in second?

  18. Likes:

    Revering4Blue (01-29-2021)

  19. #645
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    41,018

    Re: NBA 2020-21: The Final Covid-19 Season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    There aren't trophies for "I shot the most 3-pointers" or "I had the highest 3-point percentage", and it's not anything a competitive NBA player cares about, nor ever will.
    Ray Allen, Reggie Miller and the entire Curry family would like a word.
    The stockings were hung by the chimney with care,
    In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there

  20. Likes:

    Revering4Blue (01-29-2021)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | cumberlandreds | Gallen5862 | Kinsm | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator