Rumor: Yankees interested in trading for Castillo.

[wally post]

More Castillo and less Cleveland trade please.

[backbencher]

If you think the Indians wouldn’t have traded Bauer to the Reds with Hunter Greene or Suarez (!) in place of Yasiel Puig’s mediocre 2 month of team control having ass, [you're wrong].

Sorry to you and others - I was not clear. The hypothetical Ervin-instead-of-Puig would not happen because the Indians would not take it. The hypothetical Greene/Suarez trades would not happen because the Reds would never offer that. Puig was in the sweet spot of being an expiring asset to the Reds but a valuable asset to the Indians.

The other side has no evidence to back it up either. It’s all conjecture too.

There is evidence that the Indians wanted a power righty OF before the trade, and even Puig specifically. There is evidence that in a robust market, the Indians chose the deal that included Puig. And there is evidence that after the trade, the Indians valued Puig, in the form of both quotes from the front office/manager and in lineup construction during a stretch run.

That’s fair and correct.

I have no problem acknowledging this is all speculation. I think the Reds could have gotten Bauer in a deal that didn’t contain Puig - speculation. Backburner thinks the only way the Reds got Bauer was because they had Puig and included him in the deal - speculation.

The Reds traded Puig and others for Bauer - fact.

And to be clear to anyone - even though I used the phrase “I’m sure”....of course it is technically speculation but I would hope that is inferred.

kal, I like your posts and speculation on this. My point is that saying "some other trade could have happened" is only a first step. The Reds presumably could have offered Suarez instead of Puig (and the Indians could have sorted out their positions later), but that never would have happened. The Reds could have traded their entire minors, and an ownership share, for Trout, and then flipped him for Bauer. Wouldn't have happened. Basically, the conversation needed to progress to the next step.

The fact that Bauer was on the trade blocks months before the trade only makes your argument weaker. it lowers any leverage that they may have had in the deal. And they didn’t get a haul. Pretty much everyone thinks the Tribe made a poor deal with that trade.

I've been told in this very thread that the Indians got the young, controllable OF righty power bat they wanted (Reyes), two high-ceiling prospects, and saved money besides, all for one year of a pitcher that they were desperate to get off their team before the trade deadline because he threw a ball over the center field fence. Now it's a crappy deal? My head is spinning.

As for who the Reds could have traded instead? First, my point was that it’s likely Puig was included in the deal to make the money work. It makes sense that the Reds could only have afforded to take on Bauer by sending a big contract back. Sending Puig made sense, because the Reds were trying to trade him anyway. If they never had acquired Puig, they never would have needed to send off his contract.

But if you don’t agree on that, here is a very obvious answer. The Reds could have traded some prospects to whatever team had Puig, likely the Dodgers, then sent him to the Tribe, the same way they did with Trammell and Reyes. Or trade some more prospects to the Padres and gotten Hunter Renfroe back as well, and traded him to the Tribe. I am guessing the Tribe would have liked him even more.

And guess what, at the trade deadline of 2019, the Reds wouldn’t have had to trade prospects nearly as good as Josiah Gray or Jeter Downs to get Puig or Renfroe.

It really doesn’t take much thought to think of many possible scenarios in which the Reds could have come up with some way to get Bauer without Puig.

OK, now this I like a lot. Very good thoughts. I'm going to disagree on the specifics. Renfroe isn't a substitute because the Indians presumably could have had him (SD was involved in the deal after all) and apparently preferred Puig, or at least the package that included Puig. And the pick-Puig-up-separately idea is just too attenuated for me. Are they doing that before 2019? Mid-season? The prospect cost is less, certainly, but the Reds are also then sitting with Homer Bailey's big contract on the books and presumably in the rotation. The Reds cut Kemp's big deal, but it was entirely dead money. Bailey had a 2020 mutual option with a $5 million buyout - very tough to swallow.

Now, maybe you can manage a get-Puig, trade-Bailey-elsewhere scenario. To me, that's a lot of variables, all of them longish shots. Making the whole "Puig wasn't necessary to the Bauer deal" pretty darn attenutated.

[WrongVerb]

[JFLegal]

basically this ^^^^

a friendly suggestion: the phrase "agree to disagree" is one that many in this thread should take to heart.

[PuffyPig]

i'm telling you man, i tried pages ago. there is zero chance anyone is changing anyone else's mind on this issue. moving on is the best way to go.

but of course people are going to be making circular arguments for another 2 months on this topic. and zero minds will be changed.

Yet you keep posting and arguing. You may want to try harder lol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Wonderful Monds]

I think the Reds would’ve traded for Bauer basically no matter what. Maybe not a Greene, but an India, or a Downs/Gray had they not been traded as this entire hypothetical sprouted from. And I feel pretty confident that the Indians would’ve taken that trade. If the Reds had traded Puig for another team’s Jonathan India, I feel like we would’ve all called that a robbery for his remaining two months.

I’m sure the Indians liked Puig for what they needed at the time. I also know he had the least value in that trade next to Moss probably, and that the Reds could’ve easily formulated another trade the Indians would’ve been fine with if they had never acquired Puig.

[Rojo Rijo]

I think the Reds would’ve traded for Bauer basically no matter what. Maybe not a Greene, but an India, or a Downs/Gray had they not been traded as this entire hypothetical sprouted from. And I feel pretty confident that the Indians would’ve taken that trade. If the Reds had traded Puig for another team’s Jonathan India, I feel like we would’ve all called that a robbery for his remaining two months.

I’m sure the Indians liked Puig for what they needed at the time. I also know he had the least value in that trade next to Moss probably, and that the Reds could’ve easily formulated another trade the Indians would’ve been fine with if they had never acquired Puig.

I hate that im even offering my two cents because of how much I dislike this thread for not having anything to do with actual offseason movement by the Reds but yes, the Indians were moving on from Bauer and yes they needed OF help. This is why they acquired Puig in the deal as well as Reyes. They were more interested in players prepared to help immediately than a prospect like Trammell. Puig gave them a solid OF option in his last year of a deal, Reyes gave them another OF option with more control. Moss was simply providing an arm in the system from the arm (Bauer) that they gave away.

I find it maddening how this argument is happening when it's obvious the Indians wanted a few different pieces, all valuable in different ways, for Bauer as opposed to one big piece and a handful of throw ins. So yes, the Indians wanted Puig but he also fit the need in the deal with $ and his expiring deal. It just so happens that they benefited from both his talent and his fit in the deal. Shocker right?......

[WrongVerb]

This is what the Yankees fans think of the Reds...

Attachment 16987

https://twitter.com/TalkinYanks/stat...009654272?s=19

[Old school 1983]

This is what the Yankees fans think of the Reds...

Attachment 16987

https://twitter.com/TalkinYanks/stat...009654272?s=19

Poor Yankees. The reds asked for equal value. Cry me a river.

[KronoRed]

I do like the yankee whining when people won't bow down to them.

[Crumbley]

This is what the Yankees fans think of the Reds...

Attachment 16987

https://twitter.com/TalkinYanks/stat...009654272?s=19

Yankees got Aroldis Chapman from Cincinnati for Rookie Davis, why would they have any respect for the Reds?

[JFLegal]

Yankees got Aroldis Chapman from Cincinnati for Rookie Davis, why would they have any respect for the Reds?

we got way more than that. we got a gas station hot dog plus a dead rabbit.

[M2]

we got way more than that. we got a gas station hot dog plus a dead rabbit.

And a treatment-resistant rash.

[JFLegal]

And a treatment-resistant rash.

you're thinking of the bunny ranch, bro. that was the following night.

[Rolando]

I know one thing the next trade the Reds made with the Yankees sure the heck went way in the Reds favor