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Thread: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I briefly went back and looked and good lord OSU was headed in the wrong direction during Tressel's final years. The recruiting was pretty terrible for that program.

    Anyway, I always thought Rich Rod's problem is he wanted to play with fast, but undersized players all over the field. I think that worked well in the Big East where the teams they were playing didn't have quite the players that that the other leagues had. He tried to implement that in the B1G, and you ran up against teams who were just as fast, but bigger.

    IMO Rich Rod would have failed everywhere he went unless he recruited at a high level as well. Had he gone to Bama and recruited at a high level, he could have succeeded. But I don't know if that was his MO. Remember at the time he turned Bama down, UM was a far better job.
    RichRod's last couple teams at WVU could have contended in any conference....and I think that was proven in their bowl success against elite teams. He needed better recruits? Better than Pat White? Steve Slaton? Noel Devine?
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius


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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Louisville was killing other BCS conference teams in that era too. The Big East was plenty good those years. If Rich Rod had fielded those same WV teams at Michigan, they'd have won big.

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    Save for his first season in Ann Arbor, when he didn't have 'his' type of QB on the roster, the offense was just fine. The defense was the issue - for reasons that have been discussed over and over here.

    Unless we are to believe that Brady Hoke was/is some coaching savant - Spoiler: He wasn't/isn't - the '11 breakout season with Denard Robinson at QB would have assuredly happened coaching change or not, as adkindo pointed out earlier in this thread. But nobody's going to change anyone's mind at this point.



    A far better/stronger program than "Bama at the time, yes.

    The better job? No way. "Bama simply hired dud after dud post Bear Bryant - Stallings, the notable exception - and promptly fell off the map. One caveat: IMHO, if not for the incident at the strip club, which cost Mike Price his job before coaching a game there, Price may well have been wildly successful there. At the time, no SEC team was running a one-back Pro-Set. And Franchione made a career-killing mistake by leaving "Bama for A &M.
    Its interesting when you talk about Hoke. His best year was the last year before Urban took the job at OSU. You want to talk about a seachange for a conference, that was the moment. The conference's best teams kinda remind me of what Wisconsin is right now. They can have a quality season, but couldn't hold a candle against the elite programs.

    As for Bama, I do think Michigan was a better program at the time. Bama was an afterthought on the national scene for most of the mid to late 90's and late into the 00's. Is there an alternative world where Bama hires Rich Rod, Michigan hires Saben, and Michigan is the dominant program for a decade plus? I feel like Bama's rise has coincided with Texas, FSU, and Miami turning into dumpster fires. Bama has been able to go in to Florida and Texas and take the best players. Had they hired Rich Rod we may be talking about Alabama like we do PSU, they were once a great program, can put together some great seasons, but aren't legit contenders.

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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    RichRod's last couple teams at WVU could have contended in any conference....and I think that was proven in their bowl success against elite teams. He needed better recruits? Better than Pat White? Steve Slaton? Noel Devine?
    Yes. Pat White was the 609th rated player in his class. You don't build classes with one players. Granted the composite back then wasn't as accurate as it is today, but WVU's best class was rated 24th, and most of their classes were ranked 30 or below. Yea he did have some nice players, Noel Devine was the best player by far, and the reason the 07 class was considered the best. But they had two players rated in the top 200's. Just for comparison's sake, UF who had the best class had 16 players rated higher than WVU's 3rd rated recruit in that class.

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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Yes. Pat White was the 609th rated player in his class. You don't build classes with one players. Granted the composite back then wasn't as accurate as it is today, but WVU's best class was rated 24th, and most of their classes were ranked 30 or below. Yea he did have some nice players, Noel Devine was the best player by far, and the reason the 07 class was considered the best. But they had two players rated in the top 200's. Just for comparison's sake, UF who had the best class had 16 players rated higher than WVU's 3rd rated recruit in that class.
    Noel Devine was the highest rated player is what you mean? Devine clearly did not have the career of White or Slaton. At that time, RichRod had the secret formula, and I do not think the recruiting rankings can tell that story. He recruited to his system. Speed, speed, and more speed. Lineman were often small and quicker which is not going to rank well. RB's needed twitch and break away speed. Receivers were more quick than fast. It was all about spreading them out, and carving them up. Even the defense was built different with the 3-3 stack which often sought non-traditional players in those roles. You and I know WVU is never going to have Top 10 classes unless they won a couple national titles in a row. That is not about the coach...as much as it is about the programs stature. I personally think it is far more questionable if some of the blue blood coaches could come to WVU and replicate RichRod's success than it is if RichRod could have success at a Blue Blood. I think if Michigan gave a RichRod a legitimate chance to get that thing going, the dynamics in the Big10 "could/may" be very different today.

    It is interesting, that era of RichRod & Bill Stewart did more for WVU's brand than the 1988 & 1993 undefeated teams....but it was not all about the winning. It was the style and.....the TV slots. If you recall, at that time every BCS/G5 team was not aired on national television like they basically are now. They had the College Ticket PPV thing....but maybe 2-3 games from each conference actually got on ESPN or a network. So the Big East began putting WVU on a lot of Thursday night games, and they were often big games like Miami and Va. Tech early on....then later Louisville, Cincinnati, etc. I think even the Rutgers game was a Thursday night game when they were actually good with Ray Rice and that group. It is easy to pack a stadium on a Thursday night in the school year, so that played well on television. I have met so many people from around the country over the last decade that comment to me about those WVU teams, and it was often because they were on the only live sports on television on Thursday. Still today, multiple recruits from other regions every year will mention them or their older brother/father being big fans of Pat White, Steve Slaton, Devine.....or the huge one is always Tavon Austin back in the day. I am not sure they get that exposure without the Thursday night showcases.
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    I'm still mad that Louisville was stupid enough to hurt Adam Bednarik.

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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    RichRod's last couple teams at WVU could have contended in any conference....and I think that was proven in their bowl success against elite teams. He needed better recruits? Better than Pat White? Steve Slaton? Noel Devine?
    And it's not as if the Big 10, as it was known at the time, featured standout QB play in '07 or so, when Pat White's injury knocked him out of the loss to Pitt - a game that an 85% win for WVU if not for that injury, rivalry game or not.

    It's certainly a drastic different NCAA landscape than that era. Were a four team playoff system in place then, WVU would've assuredly qualified. Therefore, it's very doubtful that RichRod leaves for Michigan or any other job at that point, as he'd have no need to do so.
    Whatever you do, do your best to not allow the struggles of life to interfere with the pleasures of living.

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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Louisville was killing other BCS conference teams in that era too. The Big East was plenty good those years. If Rich Rod had fielded those same WV teams at Michigan, they'd have won big.
    I loved that '04 team with Stefan LeFlors at QB.

    Also, BC sported some strong teams with Jagodzinski (sp?) in charge. Jettisoning Jagodzinski and Al Skinner proved to be the virtual death knell for BC football and hoops, respectively.
    Whatever you do, do your best to not allow the struggles of life to interfere with the pleasures of living.

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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    And it's not as if the Big 10, as it was known at the time, featured standout QB play in '07 or so, when Pat White's injury knocked him out of the loss to Pitt - a game that an 85% win for WVU if not for that injury, rivalry game or not.

    It's certainly a drastic different NCAA landscape than that era. Were a four team playoff system in place then, WVU would've assuredly qualified. Therefore, it's very doubtful that RichRod leaves for Michigan or any other job at that point, as he'd have no need to do so.
    I know WVU fans who will go to their graves believing RichRod threw the Pitt game.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Boston Red (01-26-2021)

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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    I loved that '04 team with Stefan LeFlors at QB.

    Also, BC sported some strong teams with Jagodzinski (sp?) in charge. Jettisoning Jagodzinski and Al Skinner proved to be the virtual death knell for BC football and hoops, respectively.
    Poor Stefan LeFors never had his name spelled or said correctly even by Louisville fans, and even though he was basically flawless his senior year everyone wanted to see the local golden boy Brian Brohm play.

    I was living in Boston at the time and couldn't figure out for the life of me why BC would fire Jags for interviewing for an NFL head coaching job. The fact that he never really came back from that as a college coach is still bizarre to me.

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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Its interesting when you talk about Hoke. His best year was the last year before Urban took the job at OSU. You want to talk about a seachange for a conference, that was the moment. The conference's best teams kinda remind me of what Wisconsin is right now. They can have a quality season, but couldn't hold a candle against the elite programs.
    Interesting and excellent points!

    I feel like Bama's rise has coincided with Texas, FSU, and Miami turning into dumpster fires. Bama has been able to go in to Florida and Texas and take the best players.
    Another spot-on point.

    Who would've foreseen Texas falling off the map following their NC appearance against Bama, when QB Colt McCoy was knocked out of the game? Ditto for FSU following the Jameis Winston era. Miami, even though they were burned by the hiring of Al Golden, IMHO, made too many poor emotional 'one of our own' HC hires after Butch Davis left, though Diaz may break that mold when all is said and done.

    Is there an alternative world where Bama hires Rich Rod, Michigan hires Saben, and Michigan is the dominant program for a decade plus?
    I believe that's exactly what would have transpired. B1G fans of teams not named Michigan should all thank their lucky stars that the aforementioned scenario did not play out. Others, though not necessarily on this board, have suggested another scenario in which Saban goes to Bama anyway, Greg Schiano - their reported top choice after Les Miles - goes to Michigan, while RichRod heads to....Nebraska, which was still considered a top-tier job at the time, but no longer an elite program.

    Had they hired Rich Rod we may be talking about Alabama like we do PSU, they were once a great program, can put together some great seasons, but aren't legit contenders.
    We'll never know. But I'm still inclined to believe that, at the very least, the Alabama brass, unlike Michigan, would have at least provided ample resources (ponying up for a top-notch defensive coordinator, for example) and otherwise stayed out of RichRod's way. But it was likely a moot point, as it was rumored that RichRod's wife said "no way" to the Bama move after touring Tuscaloosa. Perhaps adkindo can elaborate here.
    Last edited by Revering4Blue; 01-26-2021 at 05:57 PM.
    Whatever you do, do your best to not allow the struggles of life to interfere with the pleasures of living.

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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Poor Stefan LeFors never had his name spelled or said correctly even by Louisville fans, and even though he was basically flawless his senior year everyone wanted to see the local golden boy Brian Brohm play.

    I was living in Boston at the time and couldn't figure out for the life of me why BC would fire Jags for interviewing for an NFL head coaching job. The fact that he never really came back from that as a college coach is still bizarre to me.
    My fault. I must have had former MLB All-Star Ron LeFlore's name on my mind then.

    Agree about Jagodzinski. He and Dana Bible, his OC, developed some exciting offenses which could simultaneously pound it on the ground or kill you through the air. You name the play, they ran it.
    Whatever you do, do your best to not allow the struggles of life to interfere with the pleasures of living.

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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    I know WVU fans who will go to their graves believing RichRod threw the Pitt game.
    This isn't directed at you, as you are simply the messenger.....

    But insert {You serious, Clark?} meme here.
    Whatever you do, do your best to not allow the struggles of life to interfere with the pleasures of living.

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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    This isn't directed at you, as you are simply the messenger.....

    But insert {You serious, Clark?} meme here.
    there are actually a ton of them....it is crazy. Nobody...and I mean nobody would ever throw a game that would cost them a slot in the National Championship. WVU fans are caught up way to much in their feelings in regards to RichRod.
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius

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    Chip R (01-27-2021),Revering4Blue (08-10-2021)

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    Re: 2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    This isn't directed at you, as you are simply the messenger.....

    But insert {You serious, Clark?} meme here.
    Dead. They believe he was already set on leaving for Michigan before the game was played.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.


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