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Thread: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

  1. #46
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Taillon would be a guy I'd pay a decent price for-- Garcia, Lodolo, and India would probably get it done (though they may have to add in a Santillan, DeLeon, or Vlad Gutierrez). He's not going to make much this season, and he'd be an ideal guy to replace Bauer in the rotation.

    .
    Too much for someone with his injury history.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

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  4. #47
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Too much for someone with his injury history.
    Tallion should yield less than Musgrove, and Musgrove didn’t yield any top prospects. My guess is that a package of #10-20 Reds prospects could easily get it done.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
    “You got the pitching, now what?” - Reds fans

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  6. #48
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Taillon would be a guy I'd pay a decent price for-- Garcia, Lodolo, and India would probably get it done (though they may have to add in a Santillan, DeLeon, or Vlad Gutierrez). He's not going to make much this season, and he'd be an ideal guy to replace Bauer in the rotation.

    They'd have to sign a FA SS (Gregorius or Semien for three years and $40M gets it done, I'd think) and could be done not just for this season and (depending on Castellanos's season) have done almost all the heavy lifting for next season as well.
    All that for 2 years of Tallion?
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Quote Originally Posted by GADawg View Post
    i wonder if "we'll" sign Pasquel Perez next? seem to be cornering the Perez market
    Keep him away from I-275.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Keep him away from I-275.
    Pasquel on the Perimeter.

    Fun song.

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  12. #51
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Quote Originally Posted by GADawg View Post
    i wonder if "we'll" sign Pasquel Perez next? seem to be cornering the Perez market
    Two Perezes enter. One Perez leaves.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

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  14. #52
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Mark Feinsand @Feinsand
    5h
    Sources tell me there are indications that Jameson Taillon will be the next Pirates player to be traded -- possibly in the next day or two. The Pirates have already dealt Joe Musgrove this offseason, so it would not be a surprise if Taillon is moved, too.
    Mark Feinsand
    @Feinsand
    Per source, the Yankees are in talks with the Pirates on Jameson Taillon. Nothing is done, but they appear to be emerging as the frontrunner to deal for him.
    Last edited by Ron Madden; 01-23-2021 at 11:35 PM.

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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    If we could get Jameson for 2-3 non top 5 guys in the system, I’d do that all day.
    Go BLUE!!!

  16. #54
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    All that for 2 years of Tallion?
    I would.

    Yes, he's a monster gamble coming back from Tommy John, but he's no more injury-prone than James Paxton or Taijuan Walker, the other two guys who'd help as much on the mound but would cost at least double Taillon's salary (and almost assuredly triple). (Masahiro Tanaka might be a fourth option, but I suspect he's a Yankee or Japan League pick 'em at this point. Regardless, he too would cost much more in terms of salary.)

    If I'm the Reds, the upside is worth the price and the prospect cost.

    He slots in as the #3 starter in the rotation. His upside doesn't replace 2020 Bauer-- nobody would. But his career numbers trump Bauer's. A top four of Castillo, Taillon, Gray, and Mahle allows Miley to be a fifth starter and for the Reds to live with that Jeckyll and Hyde gamble a but easier as well. At his best, he's a playoff game starter and solid #2.

    Just as importantly, Taillon's acquisition pushes Lorenzen back to the bullpen, where he becomes either an extremely valuable Swiss Army knife of a reliever. He could become a tandem starter with Miley, a back-end set-up guy as he has been for four years, or the closer.

    If Taillon gets hurt, Antone, Hoffman, or Lorenzen can always move back to the rotation. That just shouldn't be Plan A going into the season, IMO.

  17. #55
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    I would.

    Yes, he's a monster gamble coming back from Tommy John, but he's no more injury-prone than James Paxton or Taijuan Walker, the other two guys who'd help as much on the mound but would cost at least double Taillon's salary (and almost assuredly triple). (Masahiro Tanaka might be a fourth option, but I suspect he's a Yankee or Japan League pick 'em at this point. Regardless, he too would cost much more in terms of salary.)

    If I'm the Reds, the upside is worth the price and the prospect cost.

    He slots in as the #3 starter in the rotation. His upside doesn't replace 2020 Bauer-- nobody would. But his career numbers trump Bauer's. A top four of Castillo, Taillon, Gray, and Mahle allows Miley to be a fifth starter and for the Reds to live with that Jeckyll and Hyde gamble a but easier as well. At his best, he's a playoff game starter and solid #2.

    Just as importantly, Taillon's acquisition pushes Lorenzen back to the bullpen, where he becomes either an extremely valuable Swiss Army knife of a reliever. He could become a tandem starter with Miley, a back-end set-up guy as he has been for four years, or the closer.

    If Taillon gets hurt, Antone, Hoffman, or Lorenzen can always move back to the rotation. That just shouldn't be Plan A going into the season, IMO.
    I understand why the reds could use him, but that’s giving up 3 of the top 5 prospects in the system to a rival for a pitcher that has had TJ surgery twice. I’d give up India OR Lodolo + a couple lotto tickets for him. Maybe something like Lodolo, Siani, and Johnson or something.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  18. #56
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    I would.

    Yes, he's a monster gamble coming back from Tommy John, but he's no more injury-prone than James Paxton or Taijuan Walker, the other two guys who'd help as much on the mound but would cost at least double Taillon's salary (and almost assuredly triple). (Masahiro Tanaka might be a fourth option, but I suspect he's a Yankee or Japan League pick 'em at this point. Regardless, he too would cost much more in terms of salary.)

    If I'm the Reds, the upside is worth the price and the prospect cost.

    He slots in as the #3 starter in the rotation. His upside doesn't replace 2020 Bauer-- nobody would. But his career numbers trump Bauer's. A top four of Castillo, Taillon, Gray, and Mahle allows Miley to be a fifth starter and for the Reds to live with that Jeckyll and Hyde gamble a but easier as well. At his best, he's a playoff game starter and solid #2.

    Just as importantly, Taillon's acquisition pushes Lorenzen back to the bullpen, where he becomes either an extremely valuable Swiss Army knife of a reliever. He could become a tandem starter with Miley, a back-end set-up guy as he has been for four years, or the closer.

    If Taillon gets hurt, Antone, Hoffman, or Lorenzen can always move back to the rotation. That just shouldn't be Plan A going into the season, IMO.
    He hasn’t pitched in a year and half. It’s less that he’s an injury risk and more that no one knows how he’s recovered from TJ surgery. Remember Homer Bailey after his TJ surgery? He’s a huge risk. He may not ever be the same pitcher.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
    “You got the pitching, now what?” - Reds fans

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  20. #57
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    He hasn’t pitched in a year and half. It’s less that he’s an injury risk and more that no one knows how he’s recovered from TJ surgery. Remember Homer Bailey after his TJ surgery? He’s a huge risk. He may not ever be the same pitcher.
    And that doesn't even account for the fact that it is his 2nd TJ, where the successful return percentages drop dramatically

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  22. #58
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I understand why the reds could use him, but that’s giving up 3 of the top 5 prospects in the system to a rival for a pitcher that has had TJ surgery twice. I’d give up India OR Lodolo + a couple lotto tickets for him. Maybe something like Lodolo, Siani, and Johnson or something.
    I suspect that'll be the price, once other teams decide they're interested too. (Perhaps not. I could definitely be wrong.)

    Each of these prospects (assuming the Reds sign a FA SS like Semien or Gregorius for two years) is blocked by what should be better players for the next two years, and this deal opens up the Reds as a viable championship club for those two seasons.

  23. #59
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    He hasn’t pitched in a year and half. It’s less that he’s an injury risk and more that no one knows how he’s recovered from TJ surgery. Remember Homer Bailey after his TJ surgery? He’s a huge risk. He may not ever be the same pitcher.
    If the Pirates were confident he'd return to 2018 form in 2021, you'd think they'd wait until he had 5-10 starts under his belt to boost his value ahead of the deadline.

    The fact that they're considering trading him suggests they think there's a decent chance he's currently at peak value.

    While I don't have any facts to back it up, I'm guessing that there's not a ton of guys that go through two major surgeries and come out the other end as good or better than they were before.

  24. #60
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    Re: 2020-2021 Off-season News Notes and Discussion #2

    There is no way I trade 3 of our top 5 prospects for a 29 year old who has had a year and a half of good pitching in the majors, plus two TJ surgeries. I don't know what positions the Pirates want, but I'd offer something like Christian Roa, Jacob Heatherly, and another low end prospect. Taillon's value is at the lowest it's been because of health uncertainty plus he's not getting any younger. As an above poster stated, the Pirates might want to wait for 5-10 starts, or even some starts in ST before trading him. That's risky also, because his value might go down further if it shows he's not recovered. Anyway you look at it 3 of our top 5 prospects for him is nuts.
    Last edited by RedsFanInMS; 01-24-2021 at 12:07 PM.

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